Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

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SarathW
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Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 pm

Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

Wher do latent tendencies fitting in Dependent Origination?

https://dhammawiki.com/index.php/Anusaya
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:24 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 pm
Where do latent tendencies fitting in Dependent Origination?
Ignorance.
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 pm
Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?
Bhava.
Ye ariyasaccāni vibhāvayanti,
Gambhīrapaññena sudesitāni;
Kiñcāpi te honti bhusaṃ pamattā,
Na te bhavaṃ aṭṭhamamādiyanti...

Who clearly comprehend these Noble Truths
well-taught by him of wisdom fathomless,
however heedless be they afterwards
upon an eighth existence they’ll not seize...

https://suttacentral.net/snp2.1/en/mills
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Srilankaputra
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by Srilankaputra » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:24 am

Can I ask a counter question,

In which way does the Four Noble Truths include within it all skillful qualities?
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

SarathW
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 pm

Perhaps the following may be the answer to my first question.

==========
Furthermore, when a mendicant hears a sound … smells an odor … tastes a flavor … feels a touch …
Puna caparaṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno jivhāya rasaṃ sāyitvā uppajjanti … pe …
knows a thought with the mind, bad, unskillful phenomena arise: memories and thoughts prone to fetters.

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.96/en/sujato
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by DooDoot » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:50 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 pm
Perhaps the following may be the answer to my first question.
Unlikely. It merely says fetters arise due to contact, just as feeling, craving, attachment, etc, arise due to contant. It does not say where in D.O. this arising is. Its too general & too broad, to answer your first question.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SarathW
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:08 am

Agree.
I see your point.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

form
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by form » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:23 am

Since fetter is closely related to suffering, it will be at contact.

Dinsdale
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:01 am

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:16 pm
Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)
With the exception of ignorance, I don't think they necessarily do, since DO and the fetters are different formulations/views/models.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Srilankaputra
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by Srilankaputra » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:57 am

As what Doodoot seems to point to, What the DO provides us is a big picture analysis. As an analogy(not a perfect one) in the Art of war, sun-tzu enumerates certain timeless principles of war. These principals seems to be so fundamental 'The art of war' is still required reading for military officers the world over.

imo
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

uojm
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by uojm » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:02 am

It is not that fetters fetter; it is your yearning desire what the fetter is.

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Antaradhana
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by Antaradhana » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:12 pm

Avijja, tanha and upadana.
All that is subject to arising is subject to termination, all formations are non-permanent. And that which is impermanent is suffering. Regarding what is impermanent and prone to suffering, one cannot say: "This is mine, I am this, this is my self".

uojm
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by uojm » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:31 am

Antaradhana wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:12 pm
Avijja, tanha and upadana.
Now why would you claim that?

SarathW
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:52 am

Antaradhana wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:12 pm
Avijja, tanha and upadana.
Perhaps the following Sutta support your view.

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.122/en/sujato
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by sentinel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:22 pm

Which link should be regarded as fetters actually .
:coffee:

SarathW
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Re: Where (which link) do fetters fitting in Dependent origination?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:27 pm

Arahants have eliminated ten fetters hence they have eliminated ignorance.
So perhaps fetters are fitting to the first link ignorance.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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