Page 1 of 3

Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:29 am
by confusedlayman
Hey guys in unconcious state like in anesthesia, we dont have conciousness and perception and feeling and awareness etc. Even in nibbana, there is cessation of conciousess and perception. If thats true, then experience wise is both state same eventhough we dont have awareness? Im not talking about nibbana in life but after break up of last existance aggregates.

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:31 am
by DooDoot
Why not talking about nibbana in life? Of course the Nibbana after the cessation of life is said to be unconscious. But what is the point of pondering it if the Nibbana in life is not reached? Refer to Iti 44. Kind regards :)

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:50 am
by confusedlayman
do good merit and reborn in higher worlds all time is better than just unconciousness? is there way to reborn all time by continously doing good merit so there is existance of aggregates but dont touch conventional suffering?

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:08 am
by DooDoot
Not experiencing conventional suffering in this life is called "Nibbana'. If you wish to be reincarnated after attaining Nibbana (freedom from conventional suffering), you might need to ask the Mahayana Buddhists about how their Bodhisattva deal/option works. Regards :)

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:19 am
by SarathW
DooDoot wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:31 am
Why not talking about nibbana in life? Of course the Nibbana after the cessation of life is said to be unconscious. But what is the point of pondering it if the Nibbana in life is not reached? Refer to Iti 44. Kind regards :)
I have never heard or read that Nibbana is unconscious.
It appears this view is a result of self view.

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:15 am
by cappuccino
unconditioned consciousness, not unconsciousness

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:21 am
by SarathW
It is not unconditioned consciousness it is the unconditioned.

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:22 am
by cappuccino

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:34 am
by santa100
confusedlayman wrote:do good merit and reborn in higher worlds all time is better than just unconciousness? is there way to reborn all time by continously doing good merit so there is existance of aggregates but dont touch conventional suffering?
No, because of 1 key word: retrogression. If there's one thing that humans have been consistently and spectacularly failing at, is to stay virtuous and pure once gaining power and wealth. One can work hard and observe the precepts when s/he's poor and powerless, but the moment one's blessed with worldly merits, it's exceedingly difficult to stay virtuous and do good deeds. That's also why attaining Sotapanna-hood is the only surefire way to guarantee non-retrogression. Anything short of that will simply put one on the perpetual merry-go-round of Samsara, sometime as a deva king, but some other time as a hell-dweller.
guys in unconcious state like in anesthesia, we dont have conciousness and perception and feeling and awareness etc. Even in nibbana

Another key word: anusaya, or underlying tendency. A man can be unconscious, or even be in vegetative state, but all of his anusayas still remain perfectly intact. The seeds of lust, hatred, and ignorance are still there lying dormant, waiting for the right conditions to spring up all over again. This is in direct contrast to one who has attained Nibbana, where all anusayas have been fully eradicated.

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:43 am
by Dinsdale
The goal is to be fully awake rather than unconscious.

"... They've woken up, they rightly know.."

https://suttacentral.net/sn1.7/en/sujato

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:06 am
by sentinel
while still alive , it is called Liberation to be exact . This of course is conscious before the five aggregates disintegrates which it is called Nibbana . Without aggregates then No words to describe this .
Hereafter is not comprehensible .

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:19 am
by justindesilva
cappuccino wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:15 am
unconditioned consciousness, not unconsciousness
Vingnana in fact is a dependant phenomena in paticca samuppada (DO). Therefore we cannot think of an unconscious state that is independant per paticca samuppada. The only state of " unconsciouness" imaginable is ' vinnanam anidassanam" which is not a conditioned state per DO.
It is explained by Robert K that vinnanam anidassanam is vingnana without a base or reference which can only occur with nibbana.
Hence an unconscious state with reference to DO is a conditioned state where perceptions as vedana is not felt by an individual say in a state of fainting mode or in sleep.

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:32 am
by cappuccino
what would be conditioned? or unconditioned

consciousness, mind

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:18 am
by DooDoot
SarathW wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:19 am
I have never heard or read that Nibbana is unconscious.
It appears this view is a result of self view.
SarathW wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:19 am
It appears this view is a result of self view.
Its not:
Here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbāna-element with no residue left.

Iti 44
:anjali:

Re: Nibbana and unconcious state same?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:25 am
by cappuccino
In Buddhism, the term parinirvana is commonly used to refer to nirvana-after-death, which occurs upon the death of the body of someone who has attained nirvana during his or her lifetime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parinirvana