View never age

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
sentinel
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

View never age

Post by sentinel » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:08 pm

Dear forums ,

It appears many would take birth ,old age ,death in dependent origination as something of mentality . That birth refer to birth of a view (of a being) , similar with the aging and death processes of a view .
However , if mind process happens through contact , each contact means arising and vanishing of mind consciousness at the same time . There is no aging process in it . Does birth of a view gets old ?

Below text says the ascetics and brahmins were not freed from birth old age and death because of craving .
Does it look like describing birth , aging and death of a View ?

Regards



https://suttacentral.net/sn12.66/en/sujato

They perform further inner self-examination: ‘........ And what in the world seems nice and pleasant? The eye in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles. The ear … nose … tongue … body … mind in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.’

There were ascetics and brahmins of the past ...... And as their suffering grew, they were not freed from rebirth, old age, and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. They were not freed from suffering, I say.
:buddha1:

Dinsdale
Posts: 6577
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: View never age

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:18 pm

sentinel wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:08 pm
Dear forums ,

It appears many would take birth ,old age ,death in dependent origination as something of mentality . That birth refer to birth of a view (of a being) , similar with the aging and death processes of a view .
However , if mind process happens through contact , each contact means arising and vanishing of mind consciousness at the same time . There is no aging process in it . Does birth of a view gets old ?

Below text says the ascetics and brahmins were not freed from birth old age and death because of craving .
Does it look like describing birth , aging and death of a View ?

Regards



https://suttacentral.net/sn12.66/en/sujato

They perform further inner self-examination: ‘........ And what in the world seems nice and pleasant? The eye in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles. The ear … nose … tongue … body … mind in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.’

There were ascetics and brahmins of the past ...... And as their suffering grew, they were not freed from rebirth, old age, and death, from sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. They were not freed from suffering, I say.
In SN12.2 birth, old age and death are clearly described in physical/biological terms, and not as a "view".

Clearly the Arahant is still subject to the aging process and death, so is not literally free from them. Rather the Arahant is now free from the mental anguish associated with those physical processes. Because self-view has ceased, the Arahant no longer sees it as "my aging" and "my death", and is therefore released from the suffering usually associated with these biological inevitabilities.

Similarly the Arahant is said to be "free" from bodily pain - again not literally, but in the sense of being free from the mental anguish associated with it. This is what the Arrow Sutta describes - the first arrow is bodily pain and the second arrow is the mental anguish usually associated with it.

The only difficulty I can see with this explanation is that the Arahant is also said to be free from birth, and Im not sure why that is included. It could be interpreted as freedom from future birth(s), or it could mean the Arahant is free from any regrets about the circumstances or consequences of birth in the current life.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

auto
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: View never age

Post by auto » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:46 pm

physical body shouldn't get old, it is due to mind, environment, the breath etc.

the being in body gets old and dies and due craving for quick shortcut with sensual pleasures to avoid "the work" with that over time the physical body loses a fragment in dna code and it causes cell generation decline or whatever the new cells are less tolerant to "work" and more prone to quick satisfaction.

work here is the negative work what is from nondoing, the lifeforce is generated from not giving in to dumb urges or lazyness.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .vaji.html
58. "Yet, Ananda, have I not taught from the very beginning that with all that is dear and beloved there must be change, separation, and severance? Of that which is born, come into being, is compounded and subject to decay, how can one say: 'May it not come to dissolution!' There can be no such state of things. And of that, Ananda, which the Tathagata has finished with, that which he has relinquished, given up, abandoned, and rejected — his will to live on — the Tathagata's word has been spoken once for all: 'Before long the Parinibbana of the Tathagata will come about. Three months hence the Tathagata will utterly pass away.' And that the Tathagata should withdraw his words for the sake of living on — this is an impossibility.
parinibbana of Tathagata not physical body. And to where he passes away? like fire, that it doesn't exist anymore? noice.

It seem that even the supreme enlightened being is like a bubble.


Then who knows that Tathagata utterly passes away? what is the lesson here, what is this class about?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Chula, Laurens, Majestic-12 [Bot], Pseudobabble, Somigoh123@yahoo.com and 124 guests