Karma is everything!

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
alfa
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Karma is everything!

Post by alfa » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:39 am

Friends, :namaste:

After a lot of contemplation, I've come to the conclusion that karma is supreme. Nothing can beat it. If there's a god, it is karma.

The Buddha attained nirvana at 29. But he suffered until 80. You may spin this and say he did not suffer even though he had pain, he did not suffer even when he got old etc. That doesn't change the fact that the Buddha got old, experienced pain, went through illnesses etc.

Point is: whether it's a layperson or arhant, karma doesn't spare anyone. The layperson gets old, sick, experiences pain, etc. So does the arhant. These karmic processes cannot be stopped even if you're a buddha.

Conclusion: What matters is not how much you meditate, your moral or spiritual discipline. Even if you're a master of all this, it is of no use as long as karma persists - pain, misery, and everything else will continue. So the ending of karma is liberation in the ultimate sense. :anjali:

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by JamesTheGiant » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:53 am

There is some truth to what you say, although saying Kamma is Everything goes a little too far. Kamma is not everything.
But it is very important.
I see wikipedia says
"According to Buddhist teachings, enlightened disciples cannot create any new karma, but they may still be subject to the effects of old karma that they once did.
Citations:
Loy, David R. (2008). "Awareness Bound and Unbound: Realizing the Nature of Attention". Philosophy East and West. 58 (2): 230. JSTOR 20109462.

And also:
The effects of his karma are inevitable, and even the Buddha cannot stop them from occurring.
Citation Attwood, Jayarava (2014). "Escaping the Inescapable: Changes in Buddhist Karma" (PDF). Journal of Buddhist Ethics. 21: 522. ISSN 1076-9005.

Virgo
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Virgo » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:29 am

If you can go beyond birth and death, one can go beyond the ripening of karma.

Kevin...
The Hunger Site

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Dan74
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Dan74 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:07 am

Getting old, sick and dying is something all humans are subject to, but within these constraints there is room to have a wise and compassionate life or not.
_/|\_

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Akashad
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Akashad » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:58 am

I've come to the conclusion about karma as well on how important it is and most importantly how it can be manipulated to work in our favour.For example some people view life as a hardship that we all must endure but why..when we can easily just make good karma and open all sorts of doors.we're actually quite fortunate to be able to understand the law of karma and observe cause and effect.A lot of people don't understand why they are in the situation they are in and feel victimised but when you have an understanding of karma then you can feel some sort of equanimity.

The journey is easier to walk when the road is less thorny and rocky and so I manipulate karma everyday to work in my favour by performing merit or keeping precepts so that I can have an easier time practicing instead of practicing in misery.

Karma is supreme in a sense that it doesn't really matter if someone's enlightened or not it's effects keep bearing fruit.But some one who's enlightened is more supreme because not only do they not make new karma but they also do not care about the residual effects that come their way.

SarathW
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:16 am

Buddha rejected the idea that Kamma is everything.
Kamma is everything is Nigantha's idea.
According to Buddhism Kamma is only one of five Niyamas.

https://suttacentral.net/sn36.21/en/sujato
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Aloka
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Aloka » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:25 am

.

Ajahn Amaro discusses superstition, karma, and the Buddha's teaching on causality in a little booklet "Who is Pulling the Strings?"

Excerpt from the beginning of Ch 2 : ‘Is This Principle of “Karmic Fate” What The Buddha Taught?’

If you look at the Buddha’s teachings, you’ll see that he spent a lot of time and energy trying to counteract the view that our lives are pre-determined by past karma; that what happens in our lives is fixed and unavoidable. It was a common view during his era, as now.

More at the link: https://cdn.amaravati.org/wp-content/up ... -Amaro.pdf


:anjali:

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Nwad
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Nwad » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:23 am

alfa wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:39 am
Conclusion: What matters is not how much you meditate, your moral or spiritual discipline.
Conclusion is quite deterministic, and it's goes under Wrong View.
You can change the weight of your good or bad kamma, it's a metter of proportion between wholsome and unwholesome deeds, like a spoon of salt in a glass of water who change the taste, and this same spoon of salt in a river who have very limited impact on it.
If all was pre-determinated liberation would be impossible.

Apart of Kamma Law, there is some others Natural Laws. Kamma is important law, but it's not ALL.

I dont know it by myself, just repeat what i heared from Abhidhamma explanations. :anjali:

tamdrin
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by tamdrin » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:13 am

According to Theravada tradition and Buddhist tradition in general kamma is a quite complicated and multi-faceted law that is hard to understand.


THe Ven from Pa Auk has written a 400 page book on this law. Available here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tAhYl7 ... Fkr1u/view

sentinel
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by sentinel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:28 am

Can someone explain how this body or rupa aggregate come into being ?
What determine someone is Spanish , African or Japanese ? Does karma determine whether it is a healthy birth or difficult birth of a person or cause deformity or dumb and intelligent ? It appears no one is in control of these things . Does the text says the Buddha to be was able to decide with which family to take birth to ?
:coffee:

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Bundokji
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Bundokji » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:53 am

Don't you think that the obsession with living a life without suffering is not a sign of healthy mind?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

justindesilva
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by justindesilva » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:15 pm

sentinel wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:28 am
Can someone explain how this body or rupa aggregate come into being ?
What determine someone is Spanish , African or Japanese ? Does karma determine whether it is a healthy birth or difficult birth of a person or cause deformity or dumb and intelligent ? It appears no one is in control of these things . Does the text says the Buddha to be was able to decide with which family to take birth to ?
I listened to ven dr. Punnaji thero that in paticca samuppada " bhava paccaya jathi" indicates ones nationality. In sinhala language very close to pali meaning of jathi is nationality. This may be a questionable statement but yet is arguable.

pegembara
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by pegembara » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:21 pm

"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.

"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? Whoever touches the release that comes from the cessation of bodily kamma, verbal kamma, & mental kamma: This is called the cessation of kamma.


Basically all that is experienced is old kamma. Even the Buddha experienced old kamma and continue making new ones.

But not everyone experiences cessation of kamma.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

santa100
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by santa100 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:26 pm

alfa wrote:The Buddha attained nirvana at 29. But he suffered until 80. You may spin this and say he did not suffer even though he had pain, he did not suffer even when he got old etc. That doesn't change the fact that the Buddha got old, experienced pain, went through illnesses etc.
Actually the Buddha left His palace and went on his spiritual quest at age 29 and then attained enlightenment at age 35. Anyway, the above statement would be true only if one equated pain as exactly the same as suffering. But is it? Suffering can cause pain, but is it true that pain can always cause suffering? If a sadist sticks a red hot cigarette butt into your arm to derive some sick sense of pleasure, you would experience both pain and suffering at the same time. But what if it was a very close friend of yours who only accidentally unintentionally did it and then immediately apologized, the pain is still there for sure, but do you suffer?

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Sam Vara
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Re: Karma is everything!

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:33 pm

santa100 wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:26 pm
If a sadist sticks a red hot cigarette butt into your arm to derive some sick sense of pleasure, you would experience both pain and suffering at the same time. But what if it was a very close friend of yours who only accidentally unintentionally did it, the pain is still there for sure, but do you suffer?
Are you saying that suffering only results from the intentional actions of others? I would be inclined to overlook a minor pain inflicted accidentally, but I would say that the term "suffering" also includes serious unintended pain. Illnesses and accidental injury, for example.

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