Anatta and Dukkha

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Anatta and Dukkha

Post by budo » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:57 pm

Germann wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:04 pm
budo wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:02 am
Germann wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:58 am

There is a car, but it is not a man. There are paramattha dhammas aggregates, but they are not a man.
Consciousness suffers when it is connected to a six sense base, cars aren't conscious, so they can't feel. Still, consciousness is not a self either.

You still haven't proven there to be a self. The onus is on you to prove self, not on others to prove no-self.
I am a stream of experience, this stream of experience exists. Man is, in fact, a stream of experience. (Not in Theravada. In Theravada, the flow of experience cannot be called a person: a person does not exist, in fact.) Man is, in fact, a stream of experience: changeable, non-permanent, unlike the permanent atman.

Are you saying that the subject of suffering is the dhamma of consciousness? Then Theravada religion is not for people, but for dhammas. Since consciousness dhamma is impermanent, it does not need a religion to end suffering: in any case, such a subject ceases and suffering ends without the Path.

If we are talking about such "suffering", when no one really suffers - this is sophism. Suffering in case of total non-existence of the one who suffers, does not happen by definition. Such things do not consider suffering and do not call suffering, as they do not call suffering the fall of meteorites to Mars.
You still haven't proven a self. We're talking about self, not person, nor man. Man and people obviously exist as in combinations of 5 aggregates, doesn't mean there is a self that exists beyond a conceptualization, and a habituation of propagating that conceptualization. Concepts aren't real, they're mind made.

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Germann
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:24 pm

If no one is suffering, then "suffering" is nominal

Post by Germann » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:00 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:57 pm
Man and people obviously exist as in combinations of 5 aggregates
In Theravada, "man" ("personality" and so on) is not a name for the five khandhas. "Man" does not exist. In reality, nothing corresponds to the name "man" (there is no paramattha dhamma "man").

If no one exists, no one suffers. If no one is suffering, then "suffering" is nominal.

One can call such “suffering” temperature fluctuations on Saturn that no one feels.

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