Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
tamdrin
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by tamdrin » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:07 pm

Ceisiwr wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:51 pm
Not everything is due to kamma.
Everything related to experience of pleasure and pain is due to kamma. Otherwise it's unfair.


If I go into a convenience store and choose to drink a coke instead of a pepsi this is not due to kamma.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:14 pm

tamdrin wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:07 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:51 pm
Not everything is due to kamma.
Everything related to experience of pleasure and pain is due to kamma. Otherwise it's unfair.


If I go into a convenience store and choose to drink a coke instead of a pepsi this is not due to kamma.
Nope. The Buddha refuted that view. That’s Jain talk.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by Ceisiwr » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:17 pm

“Master Gotama, there are some brahmans & contemplatives who are of this doctrine, this view: Whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before. Now what does Master Gotama say to that?"

[The Buddha:] "There are cases where some feelings arise based on bile.[1] You yourself should know how some feelings arise based on bile. Even the world is agreed on how some feelings arise based on bile. So any brahmans & contemplatives who are of the doctrine & view that whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither-pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before — slip past what they themselves know, slip past what is agreed on by the world. Therefore I say that those brahmans & contemplatives are wrong."

"There are cases where some feelings arise based on phlegm... based on internal winds... based on a combination of bodily humors... from the change of the seasons... from uneven[2] care of the body... from harsh treatment... from the result of kamma. You yourself should know how some feelings arise from the result of kamma. Even the world is agreed on how some feelings arise from the result of kamma. So any brahmans & contemplatives who are of the doctrine & view that whatever an individual feels — pleasure, pain, neither pleasure-nor-pain — is entirely caused by what was done before — slip past what they themselves know, slip past what is agreed on by the world. Therefore I say that those brahmans & contemplatives are wrong."”

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

SarathW
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by SarathW » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:24 am

Nwad wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:02 pm
SarathW wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:06 am
In my opinion, rich people do not have time to engage in sense pleasures.
Its true. They also have no time to develop their spiritual qualities i suppose. 1 hour of their lives cost to much, so i think many of them have only moneh and greed on their mind. I can mistake, i dont know personnaly very rich peoples. But i now that some son's of really rich peoples are bhikkhus or seeking for ordination. So perhaps a rich person can become a great donor because of going forth of their sons and daughters ?
tamdrin wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:21 am
Supposedly it's THE highest pleasure.
The only pleasure that Buddha said to not be affraid of.
I think monks are allowed to experience the pleasure of Jhana and lay people are allowed to experience sense pleasure but not indulgence.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Alīno
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by Alīno » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:39 am

SarathW wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:24 am
and lay people are allowed to experience sense pleasure but not indulgence.
Yes, of corse. Actually they have no choice to not experiance/seek for sense pleasures... Until they realise Anagami fruit. :anjali:
Upāsaka Alīno - free from attachement and desire, undettered, one who perseveres, one who never gives up..._/\_

polo
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by polo » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:55 am

santa100 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:12 pm
sentinel wrote:The texts appears to say that offering makes to the Buddha and arhat and Buddha dhamma sangha yields the highest merits.
There're 31 Planes of Existence and the merit of being the wealthiest person on earth would still be worlds away from the highest merits. Simply look at a being in the animal realm, one class below the human realm, a king cockroach might be the boss in his domain, but he's still a cockroach nevertheless.
Talking about cockroach we are cockroaches, I feel a cockroach even smell like one if I don't bath for a day or two.
Are we not cockroaches if you look at our world on the inter galaxy scale? Have you look at how big our world is in the picture of milky way? We are just a tiny dot so small you hardly see it.
We are indeed cockroaches running around not knowing what we are doing until Buddha came along and made us look at things differently so we came to our senses.
So many cockroaches on the bus when I went on the bus they smell bad. Can our surgeons make it cheap to operate on the sweat glands? There is this little sac on the sweat gland that gives out this liquid along with the sweat that smells bad. It is harmless to surgically remove them from the body but could the world's surgeons do the world a favor by not charging so much for the surgical removal procedure so this whole bloody world could smell better?
Please don't ask me what country I am living in that smell so bad. Because it would hurt their feelings to know they smell bad. Buddha's teaching forbid me to knowingly or unknowingly hurt other's feelings. I will follow Buddha's teaching like a child.

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Jerafreyr
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by Jerafreyr » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:30 pm

Ceisiwr wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:14 pm
tamdrin wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:07 pm
Ceisiwr wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:51 pm
Not everything is due to kamma.
Everything related to experience of pleasure and pain is due to kamma. Otherwise it's unfair.


If I go into a convenience store and choose to drink a coke instead of a pepsi this is not due to kamma.
Nope. The Buddha refuted that view. That’s Jain talk.
I think it's best to contemplate activities being the fruit of karma until the experience of enlightenment. Otherwise how are we to determine what is or what isn't due to karma?

form
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by form » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:54 am

To be wealthy from having nothing, to make lots of money one need to be cunning. To be born rich and without a special skill and without good money management skill, the fool and his money will soon be separated.

Is there any real Buddhist that is cunning? Cunning according to the sutta is not a good attribute.

SarathW
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:18 am

To be wealthy from having nothing, to make lots of money one need to be cunning.
Not necessarily.
What you need is intelligence, hard work, patience and a bit of luck (good Kamma and five Niyamas in your favor).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

sentinel
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by sentinel » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:25 am

To be wealthy from having nothing, to make lots of money one need to be cunning .
Not necessarily.
What you need is intelligence, hard work, patience and a bit of luck (good Kamma and five Niyamas in your favor).
I agree with sarathw .
I would like to introduce a Japanese whom applied Mahayana teachings into his businesses where the motto is sharing the earning profits with the clients . Perhaps this will change your perspective .
Kazuo Inamori is a Japanese philanthropist, entrepreneur and the founder of Kyocera and KDDI. He was the chairman of Japan Airlines. In 2011, he received the Othmer Gold Medal for outstanding contributions to progress in science and chemistry. Whom presently is a Zen Buddhist priest . He renounced at age 65 even though his initial intention was set at 60 years old .
:coffee:

form
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by form » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:26 am

It is hard to become rich from poor without being cunning. The chances are a lot a lot lower. Look around u, the advertising of all kinds. Medical drugs, comfort products etc. Without such advertising and marketing even the best product you invent will fail to sell well. Flatter your boss or just work like a bull and say the truth, any difference in your work life? All these are human nature. Welcome to the real world.

I personally do not need to do such things nowadays as a few years ago i have reached financial security, but I have experience the real world before. I never like it.

dhammapal
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by dhammapal » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:06 pm

Society's definition of "net worth" is one's total claims of ownership control over material things. Material wealth is an attempt at a store of value.

Buddhism recognizes that we are all subject to old age, illness, death and rebirth. Ownership of karma is the true store of value. Rather than hoarding a medium of exchange, a Buddhist uses wealth to make good karma. True wealth importantly includes many things that money cannot buy.

SarathW
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:30 pm

dhammapal wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:06 pm
Society's definition of "net worth" is one's total claims of ownership control over material things. Material wealth is an attempt at a store of value.

Buddhism recognizes that we are all subject to old age, illness, death and rebirth. Ownership of karma is the true store of value. Rather than hoarding a medium of exchange, a Buddhist uses wealth to make good karma. True wealth importantly includes many things that money cannot buy.
:goodpost:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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cappuccino
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Re: Why the wealthiest person not buddhist ?

Post by cappuccino » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:55 pm

This is the way that leads to riches … to be a giver of food, drink, … roof and lighting to monks and brahmans.
Cula-kammavibhanga Sutta

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