Kamma

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one_awakening
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Kamma

Post by one_awakening » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:21 am

In a talk by Bhikkhu Bodhi he says;

Ordinary Kamma is action conditioned by clinging

Unless you're an Arahant, does all action regardless of whether it's wholesome or unwholesome, have an element of clinging associated with it?
“You only lose what you cling to”

SarathW
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Re: Kamma

Post by SarathW » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:34 am

Hi
The direct answer is no.

It is not easy to explain this without Abhidhamma.
According to Abhidhamma, there are 121 types of consciousness.
Please refer to Page 28 of the following link.

file:///C:/Users/Sarath/Downloads/Comprehensive%20Manual%20of%20Abhidhamma%20(3).pdf
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Kamma

Post by auto » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:49 am

conceiving an embryo is kamma.
but
clinging to beings what are subject to rebirth and therefore you too coming subject to rebirth is not kamma, you can stop this and stop rebirth.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Kamma

Post by budo » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:21 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:34 am
Hi
The direct answer is no.

It is not easy to explain this without Abhidhamma.
According to Abhidhamma, there are 121 types of consciousness.
Please refer to Page 28 of the following link.

file:///C:/Users/Sarath/Downloads/Comprehensive%20Manual%20of%20Abhidhamma%20(3).pdf
Other people don't have access to your hard drive

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Kamma

Post by budo » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:25 pm

one_awakening wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:21 am
In a talk by Bhikkhu Bodhi he says;

Ordinary Kamma is action conditioned by clinging

Unless you're an Arahant, does all action regardless of whether it's wholesome or unwholesome, have an element of clinging associated with it?
Yes. Mundane good karma is still karma.

Someone who is addicted to doing good for others because it feels good, is still addicted to feeling good.

There are pleasant and good sublime feelings like wholesome deeds and jhanas, but in the end one has to let go of even these things. Hence animitta (signless) meditation which is the last type of meditation for attaining arahantship. It's signless because you aren't depending on an aggregate.
"Then, friends, paying no attention to any distinguishing signs, I entered on and dwelt in that concentration of the heart which is without signs. But as I dwelt thus,[4] the consciousness-conforming-to-signs arose.[5]

"And then, friends, the Blessed One came to me by his powers[6] and said: 'Moggallaana, Moggallaana, Brahman,[7] do not slacken off in the signless concentration, make your mind steady, make the mind one-pointed, concentrate your mind in the signless concentration!'

"And after that, friends, paying no attention to any distinguishing signs, I entered on and dwelt in the signless concentration of the heart.

"Now, friends, if anyone were to truly declare: 'Through the Teacher's compassion the disciple gained great super-knowledge,'[8] he could rightly declare this of me."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html

auto
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Kamma

Post by auto » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:50 pm

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.146/en/sujato
And what is old action? Katamañca, bhikkhave, purāṇakammaṃ?
The eye is old action. It should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt. Cakkhu, bhikkhave, purāṇakammaṃ abhisaṅkhataṃ abhisañcetayitaṃ vedaniyaṃ daṭṭhabbaṃ … pe …
The ear … nose … tongue … body … jivhā purāṇakammā abhisaṅkhatā abhisañcetayitā vedaniyā daṭṭhabbā … pe …
mind is old action. It should be seen as produced by choices and intentions, as something to be felt. mano purāṇakammo abhisaṅkhato abhisañcetayito vedaniyo daṭṭhabbo.
This is called old action. Idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, purāṇakammaṃ.
And what is new action? Katamañca, bhikkhave, navakammaṃ?
The deeds you currently perform by way of body, speech, and mind: this is called new action. Yaṃ kho, bhikkhave, etarahi kammaṃ karoti kāyena vācāya manasā, idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, navakammaṃ.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"And what is consciousness? These six are classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness.
"And what are fabrications? These three are fabrications: bodily fabrications, verbal fabrications, mental fabrications. These are called fabrications.
"And what is ignorance? Not knowing stress, not knowing the origination of stress, not knowing the cessation of stress, not knowing the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called ignorance.
see, part of DO. And looks like DO is multifaceted to past, present and future. Reproduction of cells and mind.
And what is the cessation of action? Katamo ca, bhikkhave, kammanirodho?
When you experience freedom due to the cessation of deeds by body, speech, and mind: this is called the cessation of action. Yo kho, bhikkhave, kāyakammavacīkammamanokammassa nirodhā vimuttiṃ phusati, ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, kammanirodho.
And what’s the practice that leads to the cessation of action? Katamā ca, bhikkhave, kammanirodhagāminī paṭipadā?
It is simply this noble eightfold path, that is: Ayameva ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo, seyyathidaṃ—
right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. sammādiṭṭhi, sammāsaṅkappo, sammāvācā, sammākammanto, sammāājīvo, sammāvāyāmo, sammāsati, sammāsamādhi—
hmm cessation of deeds by body, speech and mind. it is impersonal as of the body.. itself ceases doing what would result in reproduction of cells. And that is experienced as freedom.
Practicing eightfold path will result in this.

budo
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Kamma

Post by budo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Just stumbled upon this today:
“Bhikkhus, if a person immersed in ignorance generates a meritorious volitional formation, consciousness fares on to the meritorious; if he generates a demeritorious volitional formation, consciousness fares on to the demeritorious; if he generates an imperturbable volitional formation, consciousness fares on to the imperturbable. But when a bhikkhu has abandoned ignorance and aroused true knowledge, then, with the fading away of ignorance and the arising of true knowledge, he does not generate a meritorious volitional formation, or a demeritorious volitional formation, or an imperturbable volitional formation. Since he does not generate or fashion volitional formations, he does not cling to anything in the world. Not clinging, he is not agitated. Not being agitated, he personally attains Nibbāna. He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’
- SN 12.51

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one_awakening
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Re: Kamma

Post by one_awakening » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:00 pm

Clear as mud
“You only lose what you cling to”

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