Secular Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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markandeya
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by markandeya »

SarathW wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:07 am
The west in which SB teaches is a secular society, and people may or may not have any beliefs, this will not disqualify them to practice, to practice meditation and watch and develop states is not dependant on one having a belief.
These are the people who take twigs, branches, bark, and sapwood as the heartwood.
Buddha was aware of them by the way.
Perhaps they are still can be called Buddhist.
But you can attain these levels without being a Buddhist.
Buddha was aware of them, is it said the suttas, like devatta who was causing schisms, when he was written in as schism, and many other problematic ideas from translations. I guess i will get into this more later if i can be bothered and when the right times comes.

Ultimately SB is targeting in some places the corruptions in the suttas which are based on religious beliefs, and its only really certain monastics that are worried about what he says and wants to turn people against him, because they want power in the monastic orders, other factors too. Its all to do western Buddhist translation and how they have manipulated and manufactured the teachings, its as simple as that.

Whats wrong with taking what one needs, a few lines of the suttas is good enough, does one have to carry around a whole library on their journey, sounds like it might cause backache along with all the headaches its caused. Do you need to memorize all the suttas and know what he says here and there, most ordinary folk just want to improve their lives and live with better states, but that doesnt seem to be allowed from the Holy Order, they have never been overly keen on freedom.

Handfull of leaves anyone :anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by SarathW »

Buddha was aware of the secular Buddhist.
That is why he preached the following Sutta.
===============
Safe Bet.

As they were sitting there, the Blessed One asked them, "Householders, is there any teacher agreeable to you, in whom you have found grounded conviction?"

"No, lord, there is no teacher agreeable to us, in whom we have found grounded conviction."

"As you have not found an agreeable teacher, you should adopt and practice this safe-bet teaching, for this safe-bet teaching — when accepted and adopted — will be to your long-term welfare & happiness.

"And what is the safe-bet teaching?

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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markandeya
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by markandeya »

Not sure the Buddha preaches, and to me these are just translated teachings, so much is lost in translations.

Due to English being an empical language its flawed with dualistic meanings, which just adds debate after debate and noone gets anywhere unless they accept by doctrinal faith in the words of the Buddha, who is not a limited to a historical figure, even siddartha means perfected essence and is not something to be fixed as an historical figure.

The translations are from pali, but the system of pali is not taught alongside this, this is problematic if one wants to understand what the nikayas are saying. Maybe you could explain what nikayas means :anjali:

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markandeya
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by markandeya »

Not sure the Buddha preaches, was he standing on the mount, and to me these are just translated teachings, so much is lost in translations.

Due to English being an empical language its flawed with dualistic meanings, which just adds debate after debate and noone gets anywhere unless they accept by doctrinal faith in the words of the Buddha, who is not a limited to a historical figure, even siddartha means perfected essence and is not something to be fixed as an historical figure.

The translations are from pali, but the system of pali is not taught alongside this, this is problematic if one wants to understand what the nikayas are saying. Maybe you could explain what nikayas means :anjali:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP2KDUiBI-E

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cappuccino
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by cappuccino »

markandeya wrote: The above sutta is also part of the problem that has crept into cosmology
Right view is karma & rebirth.

Easy to accept.

lostitude
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by lostitude »

Sorry if this question has already been raised and answered, but I'm wondering what's the point of practicing as a secular buddhist without believing in an afterlife? Why not simply kill yourself and be done with it? isn't Buddhism all about escaping the dukkha that's built into life?

Thanks.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr »

lostitude wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 pm
Sorry if this question has already been raised and answered, but I'm wondering what's the point of practicing as a secular buddhist without believing in an afterlife? Why not simply kill yourself and be done with it? isn't Buddhism all about escaping the dukkha that's built into life?

Thanks.

Because not all secular Buddhists believe in materialism or that death is the end. Some are agnostic, which means suicide is a risk.
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr »

But I would say any secular “Buddhist” who adheres to materialism/physicalism is no longer a Buddhist.
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

lostitude
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by lostitude »

clw_uk wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:38 pm
lostitude wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 pm
Sorry if this question has already been raised and answered, but I'm wondering what's the point of practicing as a secular buddhist without believing in an afterlife? Why not simply kill yourself and be done with it? isn't Buddhism all about escaping the dukkha that's built into life?

Thanks.

Because not all secular Buddhists believe in materialism or that death is the end. Some are agnostic, which means suicide is a risk.
In that case one can't say they "reject" rebirth, as I just read on the first page of this thread. They simply doubt, which is quite a different matter.

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cappuccino
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by cappuccino »

lostitude wrote: Why not simply kill yourself and be done with it?
in the past: it was done by misguided monks

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cappuccino
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by cappuccino »

I somehow knew my future was hopeful

(during severe mental illness)

hence I never suicided

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr »

lostitude wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:48 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:38 pm
lostitude wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:32 pm
Sorry if this question has already been raised and answered, but I'm wondering what's the point of practicing as a secular buddhist without believing in an afterlife? Why not simply kill yourself and be done with it? isn't Buddhism all about escaping the dukkha that's built into life?

Thanks.

Because not all secular Buddhists believe in materialism or that death is the end. Some are agnostic, which means suicide is a risk.
In that case one can't say they "reject" rebirth, as I just read on the first page of this thread. They simply doubt, which is quite a different matter.


Some claim to be secular Buddhists whilst rejecting said teachings. Of course, we are then stuck with the question of if such doubt is a hindrance to the path or not.
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

lostitude
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by lostitude »

clw_uk wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:10 pm



Some claim to be secular Buddhists whilst rejecting said teachings.
In that case I'd really like to ask them this question and I'm genuinely interested in knowing the answer.

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Aloka
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Aloka »

.

I've never met any Secular Buddhists myself, but they seem really harmless when compared with the horrors of wars, terrorism, people murdering and stabbing each other for trivial reasons in everyday life,, and of course climate change - which will probably wipe out all living things on this planet in the not too distant future.

What does it matter what we call ourselves anyway, its how we live our lives and relate to our fellow human beings and the many other life forms on our planet Earth that seems increasingly more important.

:anjali:

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retrofuturist
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Aloka wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:09 pm
I've never met any Secular Buddhists myself, but they seem really harmless when compared with the horrors of wars, terrorism, people murdering and stabbing each other for trivial reasons in everyday life
The only person I recall actively identifying as a secular Buddhist was Daverupa. Nice guy. Didn't seem the stabby type.
Aloka wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:09 pm
What does it matter what we call ourselves anyway, its how we live our lives and relate to our fellow human beings and the many other life forms on our planet Earth that seems increasingly more important.
It only matters to the extent that View informs Speech and Action etc. Beyond that, as a label, it's totally empty... A rose by any other name, and all that.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

"Overcome the liar by truth." (Dhp 223)

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