Secular Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:07 am

cappuccino wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:03 am
heaven & hell are mentioned by Buddha endlessly & you somehow missed it?
Jesus mentioned it also. And Mohamed (PBUH). But, like you, possibly their ideas about heaven & hell were different to Buddha.
“Bhikkhus, it is a gain for you, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the hell named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the heaven named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.135/en/bodhi
:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:09 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:04 am
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:03 am
A child has no sense of self at all?
Read in 64.
“Mālunkyāputta, to whom do you remember my having taught these five lower fetters in that way? Would not the wanderers of other sects confute you with the simile of the infant? For a young tender infant lying prone does not even have the notion ‘identity,’ so how could identity view arise in him? Yet the underlying tendency to identity view lies within him”

The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence.

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:10 am

clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:02 am
Indeed. At physical death the same process that occurs here and now from one moment to the next will find expression in a new set of aggregates. As Ven. Buddhadasa said:

“Even when we think the body has died, the "self" is unwilling to cease. When this happens, there is endless rebirth-samsara."

When the field is there ...
No. Not "indeed" because your personal ideas do not account for how an old mind enters into a new body; which appears appear to be the common idea of "rebirth"; namely, gandhabba entering into an embryo.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:13 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:10 am
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:02 am
Indeed. At physical death the same process that occurs here and now from one moment to the next will find expression in a new set of aggregates. As Ven. Buddhadasa said:

“Even when we think the body has died, the "self" is unwilling to cease. When this happens, there is endless rebirth-samsara."

When the field is there ...
No. Not "indeed" because your personal ideas do not account for how an old mind enters into a new body; which appears appear to be the common idea of "rebirth"; namely, gandhabba entering into an embryo.
An old mind doesn’t enter a new one.

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:13 am

clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:09 am
The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence.
No. No evidence for this. Its just your imagination.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:13 am
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:09 am
The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence.
No. No evidence for this. Its just your imagination.

I’m not basing it on evidence. I’m basing it upon confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and Ven. Chah, Ven. Buddhadasa and Ven. Nanananda.
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Wed May 15, 2019 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:18 am

clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 am
I’m not basing it on evidence. I’m basing it on confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and Ven. Chah, Ven. Buddhadasa and Ven. Nanananda.
Sure. Blind faith. Many suttas do not support blind faith (eg. MN 38), expect for puthujjana (MN 117). Generally, the suttas refer to "verified faith" in the Dhamma.
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:09 am
The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence.
No. No evidence for this. Its just your imagination.
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:18 am
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:17 am
I’m not basing it on evidence. I’m basing it on confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha and Ven. Chah, Ven. Buddhadasa and Ven. Nanananda.
Sure. Blind faith. Many suttas do not support blind faith, expect for puthujjana.
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:09 am
The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence.
No. No evidence for this. Its just your imagination.

It’s not blind faith for me since I don’t declare “this is true, everything else is false.”

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cappuccino
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by cappuccino » Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am

DooDoot wrote: Jesus mentioned it also. And Mohamed (PBUH). But, like you, possibly their ideas about heaven & hell were different to Buddha.
same place, same place

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:20 am

cappuccino wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am
same place, same place
Awesome. Like the Protestants, I can have faith in Jesus, where I am saved by faith rather than by deeds. :thumbsup:

:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:21 am

clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am
It’s not blind faith for me since I don’t declare “this is true, everything else is false.”
Irrelevant misquoting of MN 95.

:focus:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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cappuccino
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by cappuccino » Wed May 15, 2019 4:21 am

DooDoot wrote: Awesome. Like the Protestants, I can have faith in Jesus, where I am saved by faith rather than by deeds.
faith would save you in many ways

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:22 am

And as a side note I can say that since coming to such right view my practice has improved immensely, especially in terms of meditation and right concentration. It’s been wonderful.

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by Ceisiwr » Wed May 15, 2019 4:22 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:21 am
clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 am
It’s not blind faith for me since I don’t declare “this is true, everything else is false.”
Irrelevant misquoting of MN 95.

:focus:

*accurate

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DooDoot
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Re: Secular Buddhism

Post by DooDoot » Wed May 15, 2019 4:23 am

clw_uk wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:13 am
An old mind doesn’t enter a new one.
Sorry but you appear to be contradicting yourself. You previously said: "The underlying tendency. The newborns conditioned existence arising from the previous existence."
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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