Zombie Pigs

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22391
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Zombie Pigs

Post by Ceisiwr »

This article got me thinking. How would rebirth be viewed if one day medical science progresses to the point of being to revive a corpse after being dead for a few hours, or even days?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 5524512347
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by cappuccino »

Once, monks, there was a teacher named Araka, a sectarian leader who was free of passion for sensual pleasures. He had many hundreds of students and he taught them the Dhamma in this way: 'Next to nothing, brahmans, is the life of human beings — limited, trifling, of much stress & many despairs. One should touch this like a sage, do what is skillful, follow the holy life. For one who is born there is no freedom from death.

Now at that time, monks, the human life span was 60,000 years

Yet even though people were so long-lived, long-lasting, with so few afflictions, that teacher Araka taught the Dhamma to his disciples in this way: 'Next to nothing, brahmans, is the life of human beings — limited, trifling, of much stress & many despairs.

Arakenanusasani Sutta
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by JamesTheGiant »

clw_uk wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:08 pm This article got me thinking. How would rebirth be viewed if one day medical science progresses to the point of being to revive a corpse after being dead for a few hours, or even days?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... 5524512347
And since Theravada doctrine says rebirth is instant, would the soul or essence of the person be ripped out of the new body, and stuffed back in the reanimated corpse?
Or would the corpse revive as an empty thing like we see in zombie fiction?
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by binocular »

clw_uk wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:08 pmThis article got me thinking. How would rebirth be viewed if one day medical science progresses to the point of being to revive a corpse after being dead for a few hours, or even days?
It comes down to defining "death". Even medical science is not unanimous about the definition of "death" and works with several concepts, such as "clinical death", "brain death". And then there's "legal death".

I think "death" is that point from which on revival is not possible anymore. When exactly that is in any given case, is often unclear.

How would rebirth be viewed if one day medical science progresses to the point of being to revive a corpse after being dead for a few hours, or even days?
No different than resuscitating someone using CPR. Medical treatments, including those for revival/resuscitation evolve; treatments that seemed impossible at some point, can in time become ordinary as the technology progresses. With that, our concepts of "death" change, too.
Last edited by binocular on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
binocular
Posts: 8292
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by binocular »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:06 pmAnd since Theravada doctrine says rebirth is instant, would the soul or essence of the person be ripped out of the new body, and stuffed back in the reanimated corpse?
Or would the corpse revive as an empty thing like we see in zombie fiction?
Do you know the actual, canonical definition of "death"?
According to the suttas, when exactly is a being dead?
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17187
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by DNS »

The Yale University research team is careful to say that none of the brains regained the kind of organized electrical activity associated with consciousness or awareness. Still, the experiment described Wednesday in the journal Nature showed that a surprising amount of cellular function was either preserved or restored.
It appears that if the brain did gain increased activity, it would be like an empty thing as described by James above, no consciousness or "soul" or "spirit" so perhaps not disproving rebirth.

And it would not disprove anatta either, as consciousness is dependent on conditions and the aggregates and not all the aggregates are there in a dead animal (or human).
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17187
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by DNS »

binocular wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:06 pm It comes down to defining "death". Even medical science is not unanimous about the definition of "death" and works with several concepts, such as "clinical death", "brain death". And then there's "legal death".

I think "death" is that point from which on revival is not possible anymore. When exactly that is in any given case, is often unclear.
I agree; often people refer to NDEs as someone coming "back from the dead" when in reality they were never really dead. It's called NEAR death experience for a reason -- they almost died.
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by cappuccino »

DNS wrote: I agree; often people refer to NDEs as someone coming "back from the dead" when in reality they were never really dead. It's called NEAR death experience for a reason -- they almost died.
they die and come back perhaps hours later
dharmacorps
Posts: 2298
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by dharmacorps »

Dying can be quick or slow and is more of a process than a distinct event. If someone was brought back after a few hours then we could say they really hadn't technically died. Or completely died.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by JamesTheGiant »

I know Tibetan Buddhism has a big detailed explanation of death and bardos and how rebirth happens...
Theravada doesn't really address that process, does it? It must have been one of those things the Buddha said was not important or relevant to the practise of liberation.
User avatar
JamesTheGiant
Posts: 2147
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:41 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by JamesTheGiant »

And may I add that Zombie Pigs is the most unlikely topic title I've ever seen on here. :twothumbsup:
User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 22391
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Location: Wales

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by Ceisiwr »

JamesTheGiant wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:12 am And may I add that Zombie Pigs is the most unlikely topic title I've ever seen on here. :twothumbsup:


Thanks lol
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by chownah »

cappuccino wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:27 pm
DNS wrote: I agree; often people refer to NDEs as someone coming "back from the dead" when in reality they were never really dead. It's called NEAR death experience for a reason -- they almost died.
they die and come back perhaps hours later
No they don't.
chownah
User avatar
salayatananirodha
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by salayatananirodha »

binocular wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:07 pm Do you know the actual, canonical definition of "death"?
According to the suttas, when exactly is a being dead?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.002.than.html wrote:"Now what is aging and death? Whatever aging, decrepitude, brokenness, graying, wrinkling, decline of life-force, weakening of the faculties of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called aging. Whatever deceasing, passing away, breaking up, disappearance, dying, death, completion of time, break up of the aggregates, casting off of the body, interruption in the life faculty of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called death.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/samyutta/nidana/sn12-002.html wrote:Katamañca, bhikkhave, jarā-maraṇaṃ? Yā tesaṃ tesaṃ sattānaṃ tamhi tamhi satta·nikāye jarā jīraṇatā khaṇḍiccaṃ pāliccaṃ valittacatā āyuno saṃhāni indriyānaṃ paripāko: ayaṃ vuccati jarā. Yā tesaṃ tesaṃ sattānaṃ tamhi tamhi satta·nikāyā cuti cavanatā bhedo antaradhānaṃ maccu maraṇaṃ kālakiriyā khandhānaṃ bhedo kaḷevarassa nikkhepo, idaṃ vuccati maraṇaṃ. Iti aya·ñca jarā, ida·ñca maraṇaṃ: idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, jarā-maraṇaṃ.
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
User avatar
salayatananirodha
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:34 am
Contact:

Re: Zombie Pigs

Post by salayatananirodha »

when there is the meeting of three conditions of conception, there is a being's passing away and birth https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
Post Reply