Theravada and patriotism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism

Is Theravada compatible with patriotism?

Yes
4
36%
No
6
55%
Yea and nay
1
9%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 11

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:49 am

DooDoot

As for gays, I doubt the Allies fought to save gays. Any history books say this?? :roll: But then. the Allies did fight so all of Eastern Europe could become Communist. :roll:

I never said the allies fought for gays. They didn’t even fight for the Jews. Your ability to straw man is quite impressive.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:50 am

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:47 am
Mixed together. Think of it like this. There is action which is pure poison, motivated purely by hate (pure black kamma). Then there is kamma motivated by both hate and compassion, which is poison (hate) mixed with its antidote (compassion), therefore being of a mixed nature. A pure poison can lead to a poisonous death and suffering whilst a solution of poison and antidote can lead to prolgoned suffering but not death. Likewise, mixed kamma can lead to suffering but it can be mediated by the antidote of compassion which was pregnant within the intentional act.
Still sounds like dukkha to me. Regardless, you will have to provide a quote from the suttas that shows the Lord Buddha endorsed, approved of & encouraged such "black-white" kamma.
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:49 am
I never said the allies fought for gays. They didn’t even fight for the Jews. Your ability to straw man is quite impressive.
Shows little knowledge of WW2; and who bankrolled Churchill out of his massive financial debts and who lobbied for & built the atomic bomb.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:51 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:50 am
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:47 am
Mixed together. Think of it like this. There is action which is pure poison, motivated purely by hate (pure black kamma). Then there is kamma motivated by both hate and compassion, which is poison (hate) mixed with its antidote (compassion), therefore being of a mixed nature. A pure poison can lead to a poisonous death and suffering whilst a solution of poison and antidote can lead to prolgoned suffering but not death. Likewise, mixed kamma can lead to suffering but it can be mediated by the antidote of compassion which was pregnant within the intentional act.
Still sounds like dukkha to me. Regardless, you will have to provide a quote from the suttas that shows the Lord Buddha endorsed, approved of & encouraged such "black-white" kamma.

Of course it’s dukkha.

I already quoted the Buddha where he said some actions are motivated by good and evil intent at the same time, thus being grey.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:52 am

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:51 am
I already quoted the Buddha where he said some actions are motivated by good and evil intent at the same time, thus being grey.
No. You did not quote the Buddha teaching to perform such actions.

:buddha1:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:53 am

Shows little knowledge of WW2; and who bankrolled Churchill out of his massive financial debts and who lobbied for & built the atomic bomb.
The allies, unless you are trying to draw everything back to those naughty Jewish bankers again?

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:53 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:52 am
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:51 am
I already quoted the Buddha where he said some actions are motivated by good and evil intent at the same time, thus being grey.
No. You did not quote the Buddha teaching to perform such actions.

:buddha1:

He clearly stated that some actions are mixed.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:55 am

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:53 am
He clearly stated that some actions are mixed.
No.

The Buddha said some actions are dark and to not perform them.

The Buddha said some actions are good and to perform them.

Where did the Buddha teach Buddhists to do black-white actions; as Bhikkhu Bodhi appeared to encourage; for the sake of the tribe?

:buddha1:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:00 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:55 am
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:53 am
He clearly stated that some actions are mixed.
No.

The Buddha said some actions are dark and to not perform them.

The Buddha said some actions are good and to perform them.

Where did the Buddha teach Buddhists to do black-white actions?

:buddha1:

Your inability to hold a rational discussion is outstanding. It’s a shame to see such a decline in your cognitive abilities friend.

I never said the Buddha recommended said actions. He always recommends the good. However, he does teach that sometimes actions can be either purely black or they can be grey. As householders living in the world it’s near impossible to not engage in black, white or mixed kamma. To put it another way, the fact that the Buddha doesn’t promote grey kamma doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:00 pm
I never said the Buddha recommended said actions. He always recommends the good.
See. You debunked your own dogma. Again. :twothumbsup:
183. To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm

It’s better to do grey kamma than black. It’s better to do white than black or grey whilst the best of all is to engage in no kamma.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm
It’s better to do grey kamma than black. It’s better to do white than black or grey whilst the best of all is to engage in no kamma.
This is a Buddhist forum. The Buddha did not teach the above.
183. To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:00 pm
I never said the Buddha recommended said actions. He always recommends the good.
See. You debunked your own dogma. Again. :twothumbsup:
183. To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.

Nope, since I am dealing with householders in the world of crime, rape and war.

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:03 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:01 pm
It’s better to do grey kamma than black. It’s better to do white than black or grey whilst the best of all is to engage in no kamma.
This is a Buddhist forum. The Buddha did not teach the above.

You aren’t the arbiter of Buddhism.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 6014
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by DooDoot » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:03 pm

clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm
Nope, since I am dealing with householders in the world of crime, rape and war.
What you are dealing with is irrelevant.
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:03 pm
You aren’t the arbiter of Buddhism.
The teachings are the arbiter of Buddhism. The teachings do not say to perform black-white kamma.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

User avatar
Ceisiwr
Posts: 5395
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am

Re: Theravada and patriotism

Post by Ceisiwr » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:06 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:03 pm
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:02 pm
Nope, since I am dealing with householders in the world of crime, rape and war.
What you are dealing with is irrelevant.
clw_uk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:03 pm
You aren’t the arbiter of Buddhism.
The teachings are the arbiter of Buddhism.
How householders navigate this world whilst adhering as close to the Dhamma as we can is of supreme importance. That requires an understanding of the trials and dilemas we will face not as monks or nuns but as factory workers, doctors, policemen, infantry, politicians, kings, queens, etc etc.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kamui and 118 guests