Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

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SarathW
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Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by SarathW » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm

Can I chose where I want to be reborn?
For instance, if I want to be reborn as a prince in the Buckingham Palace in London, can I do it?
=============
They think:
Tassa evaṃ hoti:
‘If only, when my body breaks up, after death, I would be reborn in the company of well-to-do aristocrats!’
‘aho vatāhaṃ kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā khattiyamahāsālānaṃ sahabyataṃ upapajjeyyan’ti.
They settle on that thought, stabilize it and develop it.
So taṃ cittaṃ dahati, taṃ cittaṃ adhiṭṭhāti, taṃ cittaṃ bhāveti.
Those choices and meditations of theirs, developed and cultivated like this, lead to rebirth there.
Tassa te saṅkhārā ca vihārā ca evaṃ bhāvitā evaṃ bahulīkatā tatrupapattiyā saṃvattanti.
This is the path and the practice that leads to rebirth there.
Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, maggo ayaṃ paṭipadā tatrupapattiyā saṃvattati.

https://suttacentral.net/mn120/en/sujato
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:34 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm
For instance, if I want to be reborn as a prince in the Buckingham Palace in London, can I do it?
I imagine it is the same as if you want to get a job at Apple Inc. If you try hard enough, I should not be too difficult. It similar to Monica Lewinsky, who was able, through her own efforts, to be reborn in the company of well-to-do aristocrats.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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budo
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by budo » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:03 pm

The suttas imply intention along with karma determine rebirth, you need both an opportunity (karma) and a will (intention).

In this sutta, Citta has the opportunity but not the will/intention
Now at that time the householder Citta was sick, suffering, gravely ill. Then several deities of the parks, forests, trees, and those who haunt the herbs, grass, and big trees came together and said to Citta: “Householder, make a wish to become a wheel-turning monarch in the future!”

When they said this, Citta said to them: “That too is impermanent! That too will pass! That too will be left behind!” When he said this, his friends and colleagues, relatives and family members said: “Be mindful, lord! Don’t babble.” “What have I said that makes you say that?” “It’s because you said: ‘That too is impermanent! That too will pass! That too will be left behind!’” “Oh, well, that’s because the deities of the parks, forests, trees, and those who haunt the herbs, grass, and big trees said to me: ‘Householder, make a wish to become a wheel-turning monarch in the future!’ So I said to them: ‘That too is impermanent! That too will pass! That too will be left behind!’” “But what reason do they see for saying that to you?” “They think: ‘This householder Citta is ethical, of good character. If he makes a wish to become a wheel-turning monarch in the future, his heart’s wish will succeed because of the purity of his ethics. And then as a proper, principled king he will provide proper spirit-offerings.’ That’s the reason they see for saying to me: ‘Householder, make a wish to become a wheel-turning monarch in the future!’ So I said to them: ‘That too is impermanent! That too will pass! That too will be left behind!’”.

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Volo
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by Volo » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:11 am

MN 120 wrote:2. “Bhikkhus, I shall teach you reappearance in accordance with one’s aspiration. Listen and attend closely to what I shall say.” — “Yes, venerable sir,” the bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:

3. “Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu possesses faith, virtue, learning, generosity, and wisdom. He thinks: ‘Oh, that on the dissolution of the body, after death, I might reappear in the company of well-to-do nobles!’ He fixes his mind on that, resolves upon it, develops it. [100] These aspirations and this abiding of his, thus developed and cultivated, lead to his reappearance there. This, bhikkhus, is the path, the way that leads to reappearance there.1133

1133MA: “The way” is the five qualities beginning with faith, together with the aspiration. One who has either the five qualities without the aspiration, or the aspiration without the qualities, does not have a fixed destination. The destination can only be fixed when both factors are present.
Same for other destinations.

form
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by form » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:20 am

U can increase the probability.

thang
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by thang » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:22 am

Code: Select all

<form action="/kamma.php">

  FIRST NAME:<br>
   <input type="text" name="firstname"><br>
  LAST NAME:<br>
   <input type="text" name="lastname"> 
   
  GENDER:<br>
   <input type="radio" name="gender" value="male" checked> MALE<br>
   <input type="radio" name="gender" value="female"> FEMALE<br>
   
  QUALIFICATIONS:
   <input type="text" name="qualifications">
   
  WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BE REBORN:<br>
   <input type="radio" name="place" value="buckingham_palce" checked> BUKINGHAM PALACE<br>
   <input type="radio" name="place" value="catummaharajika"> CATUMMAHARAJIKA<br>
   <input type="radio" name="place" value="avici" checked> AVICI<br>
   
  I CERTIFY THAT THE ABOVE MENTIONED INFORMATION ARE TRUE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.
  <input type="radio" name="certify" value="yes" checked> YES<br>
  <input type="radio" name="certify" value="no"> NO<br>
   
  <input type="submit" value="SUBMIT">

</form>
Last edited by thang on Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

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Aloka
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by Aloka » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:35 am

Can I chose where I want to be reborn?
For instance, if I want to be reborn as a prince in the Buckingham Palace in London, can I do it?
Isn't this similar to the idea of Tibetan Buddhist reincarnation and "reincarnate lamas" ?


:anjali:

thang
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by thang » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:30 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm
Can I chose where I want to be reborn?
As we have heard:

Chosen + Possible thing to attain by beings + Sufficient merit = Happens
Chosen + Possible thing to attain by beings + Insufficient merit = Doesn't Happen
Chosen + Impossible thing to attain by beings + Sufficient Merit = Doesn't Happen
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, _ all that is just so and NOT otherwise."

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Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:56 am

DNS's The Complete Book of Buddha‘s Lists -- Explained

List no. 349

Six rarities:

1. The appearance of a Tathagata

2. The appearance of one who teaches the Dhamma and discipline

3. To be reborn in the land of the noble ones

4. The possession of unimpaired physical and mental faculties

5. The absence of stupidity and dullness

6. A desire for wholesome qualities in the world
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
.


🅢🅐🅑🅑🅔 🅓🅗🅐🅜🅜🅐 🅐🅝🅐🅣🅣🅐

Self ...
  • "an entirely and perfectly foolish idea" :D ~ MN22

SarathW
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:36 am

Interesting DD
So:
- I can chose to be borne in the Buckingham palace as a prince
- But I can't chose to be born in the Buckingham palace.
Is that what you mean?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DooDoot
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by DooDoot » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:42 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:36 am
- I can chose to be borne in the Buckingham palace as a prince
Maybe as a cleaner, kitchen hand, guard or similar; or tourist.
Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:56 am
Six rarities:

1. The appearance of a Tathagata

2. The appearance of one who teaches the Dhamma and discipline

3. To be reborn in the land of the noble ones...
Interesting, possibly very relevant, quote from AN 6.96. The Pali is: "ariyāyatane paccājāti dullabhā lokasmiṃ".
Rebirth in a civilized region. (Sujato) :pig:

Rebirth in the sphere of the nobles. (Bodhi)
:thumbsup:
Quibbles:

1. The Tathagata appeared in India, which currently has a population of 1,364,176,573 people and around 283,000,000 cows. Therefore, the above translations by DNS and Sujato appear questionable because being "reborn" in the "land" or "region" of India does not seem to be "rare" ("dullabhā").

2. The word "paccājāti" is only found once in the suttas. Paccajāta appears to be a pp. of paccājāyati; which appears found in very limited places & contexts in the suttas.

3. The Pali includes: "ariyāyatane", for which Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation appears less questionable. "Ariyā ayatana" could mean "the sense spheres of noble ones", similar to how S_D_A, for example, by choosing to dwell on Dhamma Wheel, is within the sense sphere of DooDoot. :twothumbsup: :console:

4. Therefore, similar to Monica Lewinsky, who was able to choose to be 'reborn' in the company of well-to-do aristocrats, my impression is "paccajāta" may not mean "physical or post-mortem rebirth", in this context. It seems AN 6.96 might be saying: (i) it is rare for a Buddha to manifest; (ii) it is rare to find a teacher :mrgreen: that teaches accurately what the Buddha teaches; and (iii) it is rare for a person to dwell within the sphere of a Buddha or a Noble Teacher (which would also include listening to the Noble Teacher).

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Protecting genuine Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree :thanks:

Thus associating with good persons, becoming full, fills up hearing the good Dhamma. Hearing the good Dhamma, becoming full, fills up faith. Faith, becoming full, fills up careful attention. Careful attention, becoming full, fills up mindfulness and clear comprehension. Mindfulness and clear comprehension, becoming full, fill up restraint of the sense faculties. Restraint of the sense faculties, becoming full, fills up the three kinds of good conduct. The three kinds of good conduct, becoming full, fill up the four establishments of mindfulness. The four establishments of mindfulness, becoming full, fill up the seven factors of enlightenment. The seven factors of enlightenment, becoming full, fill up true knowledge and liberation. Thus there is nutriment for true knowledge and liberation, and in this way they become full.

https://suttacentral.net/an10.61/en/bodhi
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

SarathW
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:49 am

Does it seem you can't choose where you want to be reborn?

=============

‘It seems that everyone who refrains from killing living creatures … and has right view is reborn in a heavenly realm,’ I don’t grant them that. …

https://voice.suttacentral.net/scv/inde ... arch=mn136
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

auto
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by auto » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:51 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:34 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:29 pm
For instance, if I want to be reborn as a prince in the Buckingham Palace in London, can I do it?
I imagine it is the same as if you want to get a job at Apple Inc. If you try hard enough, I should not be too difficult. It similar to Monica Lewinsky, who was able, through her own efforts, to be reborn in the company of well-to-do aristocrats.
https://suttacentral.net/an10.177/en/sujato
“Brahmin, take someone who kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct. They use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re covetous, malicious, with wrong view.
“Idha, brāhmaṇa, ekacco pāṇātipātī hoti, adinnādāyī hoti, kāmesumicchācārī hoti, musāvādī hoti, pisuṇavāco hoti, pharusavāco hoti, samphappalāpī hoti, abhijjhālu hoti, byāpannacitto hoti, micchādiṭṭhiko hoti.
When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in hell.
So kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā nirayaṃ upapajjati.
...
Take someone else who doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit sexual misconduct, or use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. They're contented, kind-hearted, and have right view.
Idha pana, brāhmaṇa, ekacco pāṇātipātā paṭivirato hoti, adinnādānā paṭivirato hoti, kāmesumicchācārā paṭivirato hoti, musāvādā paṭivirato hoti, pisuṇāya vācāya paṭivirato hoti, pharusāya vācāya paṭivirato hoti, samphappalāpā paṭivirato hoti, anabhijjhālu hoti, abyāpannacitto hoti, sammādiṭṭhiko hoti.
When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the human realm.
So kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā manussānaṃ sahabyataṃ upapajjati.
There they survive feeding on human food.
Yo manussānaṃ āhāro, tena so tattha yāpeti, tena so tattha tiṭṭhati.
as you see its even possible to reborn in human realm. Perhaps these are the ghosts..so better leave some food or think about giving food for these ghosts too.

seem not, ghosts have their own realm
Take someone else who kills living creatures … and has wrong view.
Idha pana, brāhmaṇa, ekacco pāṇātipātī hoti … pe … micchādiṭṭhiko hoti.
When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the ghost realm.
So kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā pettivisayaṃ upapajjati.
also
Take someone who kills living creatures, steals, and commits sexual misconduct. They use speech that’s false, divisive, harsh, or nonsensical. And they’re covetous, malicious, with wrong view. Idha, brāhmaṇa, ekacco pāṇātipātī hoti, adinnādāyī hoti, kāmesumicchācārī hoti, musāvādī hoti, pisuṇavāco hoti, pharusavāco hoti, samphappalāpī hoti, abhijjhālu hoti, byāpannacitto hoti, micchādiṭṭhiko hoti; They give to ascetics or brahmins such things as food, drink, clothing, vehicles; garlands, perfumes, and makeup; and bed, house, and lighting. so dātā hoti samaṇassa vā brāhmaṇassa vā annaṃ pānaṃ vatthaṃ yānaṃ mālāgandhavilepanaṃ seyyāvasathapadīpeyyaṃ.
When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the company of elephants.
So kāyassa bhedā paraṃ maraṇā hatthīnaṃ sahabyataṃ upapajjati.
There they get to have food and drink, garlands and various adornments.
So tattha lābhī hoti annassa pānassa mālānānālaṅkārassa.
So the question is, where does the companion of elephants get the adornments, garlands etc..smells like its not this material realm elephants, but some afterlife one.

“It’s incredible, Master Gotama, it’s amazing, “Acchariyaṃ, bho gotama, abbhutaṃ, bho gotama.
Just this much is quite enough to justify giving gifts and performing memorial rites for the dead, since it’s never fruitless for the donor.” Yāvañcidaṃ, bho gotama, alameva dānāni dātuṃ, alaṃ saddhāni kātuṃ, yatra hi nāma dāyakopi anipphalo”ti.
giving gifts is never fruitless for the donor.

quick look up a Sutta where Devas teach how to have birth in their realm.

rolling_boulder
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by rolling_boulder » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:14 pm

MN 41 contains the answer to this question.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

The answer is "maybe." If you have the right kamma.
18. "If a householder who observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct, should wish: 'Oh, that on the dissolution of the body, after death, I might reappear in the company of the gods of the Four Kings!' it is possible that on the dissolution of the body, after death, he may do so. Why is that? Because he observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct.

19. ...of the gods of the Realm of the Thirty-three...[3]
20. ...of the gods that have Gone to Bliss...
21. ...of the Contented gods...
22. ...of the gods that Delight in Creating...
23. ...of the gods that Wield Power over others' Creations...
24. ...of the gods of Brahma's Retinue...
25. ...of the Radiant gods...
26. ...of the gods of Limited Radiance...
27. ...of the gods of Measureless Radiance...
28. ...of the gods of Streaming Radiance...
29. ...of the Glorious gods...
30. ...of the gods of Limited Glory...
31. ...of the gods of Measureless Glory...
32. ...of the gods of Refulgent Glory...
33. ...of the Very Fruitful gods...
34. ...of the gods Bathed in their own Prosperity...
35. ...of the Untormenting gods...
36. ...of the Fair-to-see gods...
37. ...of the Fair-seeing gods...
38. ...of the gods who are Junior to None...
39. ...of the gods of the base consisting of the infinity of space...
40. ...of the gods of the base consisting of the infinity of consciousness...
41. ...of the gods of the base consisting of nothingness...
so on and so on
The world is swept away. It does not endure...
The world is without shelter, without protector...
The world is without ownership. One has to pass on, leaving everything behind...
The world is insufficient, insatiable, a slave to craving.

alfa
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Re: Can I chose where I want to be reborn?

Post by alfa » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:27 am

A Buddhist should fear rebirth, not desire it. :anjali:

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