Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:21 am

News update. They want everyone out of the temple by 3pm. They seized recording devices from the temple members and the prime minister declared the temple to be under government control. The temple now legally belongs to the government. It has been stolen. All of the millions of dollars of valuables in the temple now belong to the government and the temple haters have helped the government with their bank account by supporting this. The Dhammakaya built this temple with their hands, they spent their money building this temple, khun yai ajarn worked until she was sickly building this temple, they had no government funding, this is their property, their temple, and now it has been stolen from them and they are getting kicked out of their homes. If anyone ends up dying or getting killed, you won't see it, because the police stole recording devices from the temple members. The temple haters have helped support a strong armed robbery. The government is going to cut the circuit of power at 10:00am. If anyone thinks they are doing this because of "forest encroachment" or "money laundering" then i don't even know what to say to you. Wake up.

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exonesion
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:23 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by exonesion » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:09 am

ManEagle wrote: There are those, my wife included, who believes the Thai junta is out to completely destroy Buddhism in Thailand and somehow convert every Buddhist to Islam. I guess anything is possible under a dictatorship but I would have thought this unlikely. Maybe one of the Dhammakaya followers on here would like to comment on this and offer some convincing evidence that this conspiracy theory may have some truth to it.
The conspiracy theory may have a grain of truth in it. And I'd like to draw a parallel between what's happening now at Wat Phra Dhammakaya and the decline of Buddhism in India.
Buddhism has generally relied on the support of kings and where that was wanting it has usually been in difficulties
- Source: Buddhism: A Short History

State support crucial for Buddhism to flourish
Back in India, Buddhism flourished under the reign of Ashoka because he supported it through active propagation of the Buddha's teachings.
Conversely, Buddhism struggled to survive under anti-Buddhist rulers, and this is seen through the religious persecution of Buddhist monks and destruction of Buddhist temples when Turkish Muslims invaded India. Thus, the rulers' support of Buddhism partly determines the lifespan of Buddhism in that area. And if the rulers' are hostile towards Buddhism, that will accelerate the decline of Buddhism.

Government's overt lack of support
The link between survival of Buddhism and lack of governmental support may seem tenuous, but that doesn't mean there isn't any.
In Thailand right now, we can see the government's lack of support and respect for Buddhism, especially in the way it handles Wat Phra Dhammakaya's (WPD) case. And this could logically and possibly lead to a decline of Buddhism in Thailand.

Three reasons supporting the conspiracy theory
First, the premise of the money-laundering case against WPD's Abbot, Luang Phor Dhammajayo, is indefensible.
DSI accuses the abbot of money-laundering, but how can the abbot launder money if he didn't personally receive the donation? By DSI's logic, if a monk can be guilty of embezzlement because of devotees' donations, this would set a precedence that temples have to verify the legality of the donations. This places an onerous burden on all temples because it is hard, even weird, for the temple to ask the donors if their donations are legal. Based on this weak case against WPD's abbot, DSI began filing their charges, and they slowly snowballed to the 300+ charges we see today.

Second, DSI provided no alternative for the abbot to answer the charges. According to Former Police General Sereepisuth Temiyaves, DSI could have requested a video conference for the abbot to answer the money-laundering charges. And hence, there was no need for an arrest warrant.

Third, would be the excessive use of military and police force to enforce the arrest warrant. According to a news article dated 16 Feb by the Daily Mail, 3000 police raided WPD to look for its abbot. One argument against this is that the government could have used this force to tackle the islamic insurgency in South Thailand, but it didn't.

A possible deduction
From the above reasons, we can deduce that the current Thai government does not support WPD, and by extension, Buddhism.
And by extrapolating the current situation to the extreme, we can see why there is the conspiracy theory that the Thai Junta is out to destroy Buddhism.

TL;DR version:
1. State hostility toward Buddhism hastens decline of Buddhism. (Claim)
2. Turkish Muslim invaders hastened decline of Buddhism in India (Evidence)

Drawing a parallel
3. Three reasons why the current Thai Junta is hostile. (Claim & evidence)
4. Conspiracy theory that Thai Junta is out to completely destroy Buddhism is not without basis (Deduction)


Basically, this is a rehash of the arguments against the harsh treatment of WPD.

:namaste:
“Meditate, Ānanda, do not delay, or else you will regret it later.”
The Buddha - MN 152

form
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by form » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:09 am

I want share my dhammakaya experience in their branch in Singapore.

I attended their basic and intermediate meditation course. It is free and lesson are held weekly lasting about ten lessons for each level. I would say they teach decent meditation by overcoming 5 hinderances. Their popular meditation object is a crystal ball. The seven points appear to me to be similar to focus points on the body, other than that I won't say they deviate much from the nikaya. What I like about their system is they focus on good conduct and regularly ask students to review if they attempt to meditate at least 30 mins daily. This school is meditation centric, as compare to another school I also attended before which is Nikaya centric. I can tell among the senior students, there are many good meditators. Another school that is meditation centric here is Pak Au.

Any way after I attended the intermediate course, I was encouraged to attend the advance course in their retreat centre in northern Thailand. I also received a letter from them asking me to donate $2500. It is just a request as they are building a new facility in Singapore that has a hall capable of holding 500 people for meditation at any one time.

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samseva
Posts: 2131
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by samseva » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:49 pm

form wrote:Any way after I attended the intermediate course, I was encouraged to attend the advance course in their retreat centre in northern Thailand. I also received a letter from them asking me to donate $2500. It is just a request as they are building a new facility in Singapore that has a hall capable of holding 500 people for meditation at any one time.
The last part kind of says a lot about Dhammakaya.

ManEagle
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by ManEagle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:40 pm

exonesion wrote:
ManEagle wrote: There are those, my wife included, who believes the Thai junta is out to completely destroy Buddhism in Thailand and somehow convert every Buddhist to Islam. I guess anything is possible under a dictatorship but I would have thought this unlikely. Maybe one of the Dhammakaya followers on here would like to comment on this and offer some convincing evidence that this conspiracy theory may have some truth to it.
The conspiracy theory may have a grain of truth in it. And I'd like to draw a parallel between what's happening now at Wat Phra Dhammakaya and the decline of Buddhism in India.
Buddhism has generally relied on the support of kings and where that was wanting it has usually been in difficulties
- Source: Buddhism: A Short History

State support crucial for Buddhism to flourish
Back in India, Buddhism flourished under the reign of Ashoka because he supported it through active propagation of the Buddha's teachings.
Conversely, Buddhism struggled to survive under anti-Buddhist rulers, and this is seen through the religious persecution of Buddhist monks and destruction of Buddhist temples when Turkish Muslims invaded India. Thus, the rulers' support of Buddhism partly determines the lifespan of Buddhism in that area. And if the rulers' are hostile towards Buddhism, that will accelerate the decline of Buddhism.

Government's overt lack of support
The link between survival of Buddhism and lack of governmental support may seem tenuous, but that doesn't mean there isn't any.
In Thailand right now, we can see the government's lack of support and respect for Buddhism, especially in the way it handles Wat Phra Dhammakaya's (WPD) case. And this could logically and possibly lead to a decline of Buddhism in Thailand.

Three reasons supporting the conspiracy theory
First, the premise of the money-laundering case against WPD's Abbot, Luang Phor Dhammajayo, is indefensible.
DSI accuses the abbot of money-laundering, but how can the abbot launder money if he didn't personally receive the donation? By DSI's logic, if a monk can be guilty of embezzlement because of devotees' donations, this would set a precedence that temples have to verify the legality of the donations. This places an onerous burden on all temples because it is hard, even weird, for the temple to ask the donors if their donations are legal. Based on this weak case against WPD's abbot, DSI began filing their charges, and they slowly snowballed to the 300+ charges we see today.

Second, DSI provided no alternative for the abbot to answer the charges. According to Former Police General Sereepisuth Temiyaves, DSI could have requested a video conference for the abbot to answer the money-laundering charges. And hence, there was no need for an arrest warrant.

Third, would be the excessive use of military and police force to enforce the arrest warrant. According to a news article dated 16 Feb by the Daily Mail, 3000 police raided WPD to look for its abbot. One argument against this is that the government could have used this force to tackle the islamic insurgency in South Thailand, but it didn't.

A possible deduction
From the above reasons, we can deduce that the current Thai government does not support WPD, and by extension, Buddhism.
And by extrapolating the current situation to the extreme, we can see why there is the conspiracy theory that the Thai Junta is out to destroy Buddhism.

TL;DR version:
1. State hostility toward Buddhism hastens decline of Buddhism. (Claim)
2. Turkish Muslim invaders hastened decline of Buddhism in India (Evidence)

Drawing a parallel
3. Three reasons why the current Thai Junta is hostile. (Claim & evidence)
4. Conspiracy theory that Thai Junta is out to completely destroy Buddhism is not without basis (Deduction)


Basically, this is a rehash of the arguments against the harsh treatment of WPD.

:namaste:
Taking all of this on board I still wonder whether this is purely a 'power' thing, in that the Thai Junta may percieve WPD as being too powerful in respect of their growing popularity in Thailand (as well as worldwide) and becuase of this perhaps it is purely against WPD rather than Buddhism generally. This is just my observation, notwithstanding the excellent analysis/evidence you've provided.

Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:42 pm

samseva wrote:
form wrote:Any way after I attended the intermediate course, I was encouraged to attend the advance course in their retreat centre in northern Thailand. I also received a letter from them asking me to donate $2500. It is just a request as they are building a new facility in Singapore that has a hall capable of holding 500 people for meditation at any one time.
The last part kind of says a lot about Dhammakaya.
I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.

ManEagle
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by ManEagle » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:04 pm

form wrote: I also received a letter from them asking me to donate $2500. It is just a request as they are building a new facility in Singapore that has a hall capable of holding 500 people for meditation at any one time.
Rather than make rash judgements about this, I would very much like to see a copy of this 'letter' if you still have it, just to satisfy a curiosity. I find it hard to believe that any organisation, religious or not, would actually ask an individual to make a donation of a specific amount of money, especially a significantly large amount like this. I've heard of organisations 'suggesting' amounts to donate but this would normally be for services such as meditaion sessions etc. I don't know if it's allowed or even possible to post copies of letters on the forum but it would be interesting to see? Although, having said this, I know for a fact that my wife donated an amount similar to this some years back but I don't know if the specfic amount was requested by WPD.

Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

News update. The prime minister has been accused of treason for issuing the illegal article 44 to be used to forcibly take control of a property which doesn't belong to him. Article 44 hasn't been approved by congress and therefore it isn't legal. It is born out of the destruction of the legal constitution during the Coup d'état when the prime minister used his power to take control of a country without being voted into office by the people. The crime of treason could potentially be punished by death. Although I don't support the death penalty.

Article 44 was issued even though the temple members let the police into the temple to search for the abbot and complied with them. The military dictatorship is now trying to force the dhammakaya members out of their homes so the dsi and police can be in the temple alone. News articles such as the bangkokpost continue to spread false information, saying that they are trying to make the temple members leave the temple because it will make it easier for them to search for the abbot. But the prime minister has openly said that he wasn't going into the temple to arrest the abbot. The reason that news articles can get away with saying things like this is because people simply aren't informed enough and won't investigate further than a random news article on the front page of google. Also, news articles such as the bangkokpost delete dhammakaya comments defending the temple. So Dhammakaya members can't even correct the false information for people. Once the temple members leave the temple the military junta can steal the valuables in the temple and plant illegal objects in the temple to charge them with more crimes. They could also steal the entire temple itself and just never let the monks or lay people back in. They have issued the arrest and disrobing of 2,000 monks.

The temple members are currently putting their lives on the line to defend the temple. This is the temple they spent their money building, that they spent their lives working on. This isn't the DSI's temple, it's not the militaries temple, this is the Dhammakayas temple. Cops on facebook are insulting the dhammakaya and joking about using a bomb against them. One temple member has already had her ribs broken. A monk has been injured too. They aren't going to let their temple be stolen from them. Many people may be fooled by popular media outlets that spread anti-dhammakaya propaganda, but they can't fool everyone. Thousands upon thousands of people stand in support of the temple against the invasion. Dhammakaya members aren't cowards, they aren't going to let the pm, military, police, and dsi bully them. The dsi already took Mr Supachais property and sold it for 477 million baht of which they kept 249 million of it. Now they are coming after the temple. But they won't be able to get it so easily. In fact the PM may have dug himself into a deep dark hole by doing this. I don't know if he will be able to get out of this one. There's more to come.
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samseva
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by samseva » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Turmeric wrote:I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.
It very much resembles Dhammakaya tendencies.

A Thai friend of mine went to Dhammakaya once. It turns out that a monk would guide him during his meditation. After about 20 minutes, the monk then suggested that it would be important for him to donate money to Dhammakaya, which would result in him reaching heaven after his death.

Scary thing.

Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:57 pm

samseva wrote:
Turmeric wrote:I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.
It very much resembles Dhammakaya tendencies.

A Thai friend of mine went to Dhammakaya once. It turns out that a monk would guide him during his meditation. After about 20 minutes, the monk then suggested that it would be important for him to donate money to Dhammakaya, which would result in him reaching heaven after his death.

Scary thing.
I have talked to many Dhammakaya monks. None of them have ever suggested I donate anything. But I donate anyways because I'm a Buddhist and thats what the Buddha taught.

form
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by form » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:13 am

ManEagle wrote:
form wrote: I also received a letter from them asking me to donate $2500. It is just a request as they are building a new facility in Singapore that has a hall capable of holding 500 people for meditation at any one time.
Rather than make rash judgements about this, I would very much like to see a copy of this 'letter' if you still have it, just to satisfy a curiosity. I find it hard to believe that any organisation, religious or not, would actually ask an individual to make a donation of a specific amount of money, especially a significantly large amount like this. I've heard of organisations 'suggesting' amounts to donate but this would normally be for services such as meditaion sessions etc. I don't know if it's allowed or even possible to post copies of letters on the forum but it would be interesting to see? Although, having said this, I know for a fact that my wife donated an amount similar to this some years back but I don't know if the specfic amount was requested by WPD.
I dun keep the letter after seeing it as I dun find anything wrong with it. As I have said fund are needed to build a new facility to house 500pax for meditation course at any one time. It must be about two years ago.

Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:12 am

samseva wrote:
Turmeric wrote:I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.
It very much resembles Dhammakaya tendencies.

A Thai friend of mine went to Dhammakaya once. It turns out that a monk would guide him during his meditation. After about 20 minutes, the monk then suggested that it would be important for him to donate money to Dhammakaya, which would result in him reaching heaven after his death.

Scary thing.
The Buddhas teaching is a scary thing? The Buddha gives a very detailed list in the pali canon of the various heaven realms you go to for donating.

"Having given this gift seeking his own profit — with a mind attached [to the reward], seeking to store up for himself, [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Four Great Kings. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Then there is the case of a person who gives a gift not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death.' Instead, he gives a gift with the thought, 'Giving is good.' He gives his gift — food, drink, clothing, a vehicle; a garland, perfume, & ointment; bedding, shelter, & a lamp — to a brahman or a contemplative. What do you think, Sariputta? Might a person give such a gift as this?"

"Yes, lord."

"Having given this gift with the thought, 'Giving is good,' on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas of the Thirty-three. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead of thinking, 'Giving is good,' he gives a gift with the thought, 'This was given in the past, done in the past, by my father & grandfather. It would not be right for me to let this old family custom be discontinued'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas of the Hours. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'I am well-off. These are not well-off. It would not be right for me, being well-off, not to give a gift to those who are not well-off'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Contented devas. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'Just as there were the great sacrifices of the sages of the past — Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamataggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa, & Bhagu — in the same way will this be my distribution of gifts'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas who delight in creation. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas who have power over the creations of others. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead of thinking, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise,' he gives a gift with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind.' He gives his gift — food, drink, clothing, a vehicle; a garland, perfume, & ointment; bedding, shelter, & a lamp — to a brahman or a contemplative. What do you think, Sariputta? Might a person give such a gift as this?"

"Yes, lord."

"Having given this, not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death,'

— nor with the thought, 'Giving is good,'

— nor with the thought, 'This was given in the past, done in the past, by my father & grandfather. It would not be right for me to let this old family custom be discontinued,'

— nor with the thought, 'I am well-off. These are not well-off. It would not be right for me, being well-off, not to give a gift to those who are not well-off,' nor with the thought, 'Just as there were the great sacrifices of the sages of the past — Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamadaggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa, & Bhagu — in the same way this will be my distribution of gifts,'

— nor with the thought, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise,'

— but with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of Brahma's Retinue. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a non-returner. He does not come back to this world.

"This, Sariputta, is the cause, this is the reason, why a person gives a gift of a certain sort and it does not bear great fruit or great benefit, whereas another person gives a gift of the same sort and it bears great fruit and great benefit."

— AN 7.49



What the miser fears,
that keeps him from giving,
is the very danger that comes
when he doesn't give.

— SN 1.32


No misers go
to the world of the devas.
Those who don't praise giving
are fools.
The enlightened
express their approval for giving
and so find ease
in the world beyond.

— Dhp 177

For one who desires long life, health, beauty, heaven, & noble birth, — lavish delights, one after another — the wise praise heedfulness in doing acts of merit. When heedful, wise, you achieve both kinds of benefit: benefits in this life, & benefits in lives to come. By breaking through to your benefit, you're called enlightened, wise.

— SN 3.17

Turmeric
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:11 am

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Turmeric » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 am

A letter on the thai alliance of human rights website. Casualties are starting now. There has been a death. There is a picture on facebook of them bringing a TANK to the temple. :shock:

Thai Alliance for Human Rights letter to US State Department about Crisis at Wat Phra Dhammakaya

Dear Assistant Secretary Daniel R. Russel, State Department,

Hi, I am Ann Norman, Executive Director of the Thai Alliance for Human Rights. Please be aware that there is an emergency at Wat Prah Dhammakaya in Thailand. The Prime Minister and former coup leader Prayut Chan-o-cha is using Article 44 of the Interim Constitution (the Dictator’s Law, by which he gives himself the power to do anything he thinks necessary) to invade this gigantic, very modern, very wealthy Buddhist temple (in a compound of about 1.5 square miles) in order to arrest the temple’s hororary Abbot Phra Dhammachayo and charge him with embezzlement (he accepted a donation that had been embezzled and has since returned it – other more minor charges have been piled on.) The government has mobilized 20 teams of the Department of Special Investigations, 3,600 police officers and 900 soldiers to surround the temple and search it for the abbot, who may or may not be there. The members of the temple (ordinary laypeople who come and go, attending for a weekend or special event and returning home) view this as politically motivated harassment of their religion.

The Thai Alliance for Human Rights considers this huge mobilization just to charge one elderly abbot with a nonviolent crime to be an overreaction that risks a catastrophe. There is no downside to waiting it out. There is no ongoing crime that needs to be stopped. Already, social media shows that one girl was accidentally run over and killed by a huge military vehicle associated with this operation. There have been scuffles between monks and investigative agents and between laypeople and investigative agents. Because this involves religion and people’s fundamental beliefs, some followers claim they are willing to die for the principle that the government should not be interfering with their temple. There is also a widespread fear among members, who have poured their own money into building the temple, that the government will try first discredit the temple and then steal its assets. This fear is reasonable in light of the prosecution of ex-Prime Minister Yingluck for mismanagement of the rice scheme and the use of Article 44 to freeze her assets in connection with that case.

With so much at stake, we have the set-up for potential disaster. As you know, suppression of protests in Thailand often end violently and then no one is ever prosecuted. If anything goes wrong in this operation, the government would once again be absolved, this time by Article 44. We cannot let the rulers of Thailand continue to act with impunity. There has to be more respect for citizens and their rights to differing opinions and types of religion, and a commitment to the rule of law and equal treatment under the law.

Please recommend to the Thai government that they desist with their operation against Wat Phra Dhammakaya.

Thank you,

http://tahr-global.org/?p=32171

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gavesako
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by gavesako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:10 pm

Turmeric wrote:
samseva wrote:
Turmeric wrote:I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.
It very much resembles Dhammakaya tendencies.

A Thai friend of mine went to Dhammakaya once. It turns out that a monk would guide him during his meditation. After about 20 minutes, the monk then suggested that it would be important for him to donate money to Dhammakaya, which would result in him reaching heaven after his death.

Scary thing.
The Buddhas teaching is a scary thing? The Buddha gives a very detailed list in the pali canon of the various heaven realms you go to for donating.

"Having given this gift seeking his own profit — with a mind attached [to the reward], seeking to store up for himself, [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Four Great Kings. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Then there is the case of a person who gives a gift not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death.' Instead, he gives a gift with the thought, 'Giving is good.' He gives his gift — food, drink, clothing, a vehicle; a garland, perfume, & ointment; bedding, shelter, & a lamp — to a brahman or a contemplative. What do you think, Sariputta? Might a person give such a gift as this?"

"Yes, lord."

"Having given this gift with the thought, 'Giving is good,' on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas of the Thirty-three. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead of thinking, 'Giving is good,' he gives a gift with the thought, 'This was given in the past, done in the past, by my father & grandfather. It would not be right for me to let this old family custom be discontinued'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas of the Hours. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'I am well-off. These are not well-off. It would not be right for me, being well-off, not to give a gift to those who are not well-off'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Contented devas. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'Just as there were the great sacrifices of the sages of the past — Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamataggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa, & Bhagu — in the same way will this be my distribution of gifts'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas who delight in creation. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead... he gives a gift with the thought, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise'... on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the devas who have power over the creations of others. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Or, instead of thinking, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise,' he gives a gift with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind.' He gives his gift — food, drink, clothing, a vehicle; a garland, perfume, & ointment; bedding, shelter, & a lamp — to a brahman or a contemplative. What do you think, Sariputta? Might a person give such a gift as this?"

"Yes, lord."

"Having given this, not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death,'

— nor with the thought, 'Giving is good,'

— nor with the thought, 'This was given in the past, done in the past, by my father & grandfather. It would not be right for me to let this old family custom be discontinued,'

— nor with the thought, 'I am well-off. These are not well-off. It would not be right for me, being well-off, not to give a gift to those who are not well-off,' nor with the thought, 'Just as there were the great sacrifices of the sages of the past — Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamadaggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa, & Bhagu — in the same way this will be my distribution of gifts,'

— nor with the thought, 'When this gift of mine is given, it makes the mind serene. Gratification & joy arise,'

— but with the thought, 'This is an ornament for the mind, a support for the mind' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of Brahma's Retinue. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a non-returner. He does not come back to this world.

"This, Sariputta, is the cause, this is the reason, why a person gives a gift of a certain sort and it does not bear great fruit or great benefit, whereas another person gives a gift of the same sort and it bears great fruit and great benefit."

— AN 7.49



What the miser fears,
that keeps him from giving,
is the very danger that comes
when he doesn't give.

— SN 1.32


No misers go
to the world of the devas.
Those who don't praise giving
are fools.
The enlightened
express their approval for giving
and so find ease
in the world beyond.

— Dhp 177

For one who desires long life, health, beauty, heaven, & noble birth, — lavish delights, one after another — the wise praise heedfulness in doing acts of merit. When heedful, wise, you achieve both kinds of benefit: benefits in this life, & benefits in lives to come. By breaking through to your benefit, you're called enlightened, wise.

— SN 3.17

The Buddha affirmed the kammic results of actions such as giving, which will indeed transport one to the higher levels of samsara, but he did not make that the central point of his teaching or suggest that one should be satisfied with that. Just on the contrary, he warned that monks will become lax in the future due to seeking such gifts from the laypeople:

Anāgatabhaya Sutta
The Discourse on Future Dangers (4)
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 5-080.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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samseva
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by samseva » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:47 pm

Turmeric wrote:
samseva wrote:
Turmeric wrote:I stayed at a dhammakaya temple. Free transportation, free books, free food, free place to stay. Never had to donate anything. Never got a letter asking to donate anything.
It very much resembles Dhammakaya tendencies.

A Thai friend of mine went to Dhammakaya once. It turns out that a monk would guide him during his meditation. After about 20 minutes, the monk then suggested that it would be important for him to donate money to Dhammakaya, which would result in him reaching heaven after his death.

Scary thing.
The Buddhas teaching is a scary thing? The Buddha gives a very detailed list in the pali canon of the various heaven realms you go to for donating.

"Having given this gift seeking his own profit — with a mind attached [to the reward], seeking to store up for himself, [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death' — on the break-up of the body, after death, he reappears in the company of the Four Great Kings. Then, having exhausted that action, that power, that status, that sovereignty, he is a returner, coming back to this world.

"Then there is the case of a person who gives a gift not seeking his own profit, not with a mind attached [to the reward], not seeking to store up for himself, nor [with the thought], 'I'll enjoy this after death.' Instead, he gives a gift with the thought, 'Giving is good.' He gives his gift — food, drink, clothing, a vehicle; a garland, perfume, & ointment; bedding, shelter, & a lamp — to a brahman or a contemplative. What do you think, Sariputta? Might a person give such a gift as this?"

"Yes, lord."

[...]
Like Ven. Gavesako mentioned, donating is but a small portion of what the Buddha taught—which Dhammakaya seems to have made central. Furthermore, what was considered as donations according to the Buddha's teaching and to the Buddha was food, housing, clothes fabrics, land, requisites, etc. It wasn't large somes of money.

Finally, for a monk, not only is requesting money—which Dhammakaya are commonly known to do—against the Vinaya, but it is based in greed and therefore shows to what extent Dhammakaya and Dhammakaya monks practice the teachings (a superficial one).

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