Wat Dhammakaya

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
TRobinson465
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 pm

jameswang wrote:
exonesion wrote:As for your post about the music video and that your allegation that the human rights may be copied from somewhere, may we know where? We could use some mention of that somewhere. And I don’t think a music video posted on their site is enough to discredit the website.
I wonder if you're just pretending to be unintelligent. But never mind, I'll give you the benefit of doubt, be more direct about what I think: It's a fraudulent website.

The music video blog post is among the other irrelevant ones shown as posted in 2012, while according to
http://whois.domaintools.com/tahr-global.org
the domain was "Created on 2014-03-05".

From my samplings, the supposedly older postings are just copied material from elsewhere. Only the more recent ones are original, and they are specifically on Dhammakaya.

Seems obvious to me it's a (poor) con PR job.

I was able to find other sites that have the Dk material also so it doesnt look like its only other stuff. Based on what ive been told the site is blocked in Thailand so it makes sense the posts would be on multiple sites.

People in Thailand feel free to verify.
http://tahr-global.org/?p=32050
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

TRobinson465
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:34 pm

A few more statements. On Pornchai. im inclined to believe he was just acting on his own. I beleive Dhammakaya does sponsor WLBY or whatever it is. but theres a good chance Dr. Pornchai was just acting on his own with regard to Ashin Wirathu. Given that there was an attempt to remove him i think thats reasonable.


Yes Im aware of that rule Bhikku Pesala pointed out.Thank you bhante. But actually if you look at LP Dhammajayos sermons he frequently says "this is only a fairy tale" to help understand the law of karma. so you "could" argue he isnt actually claiming this since he doesnt say it directly. But generally his followers do beleive he knows via meditation even tho he doesnt say it explicitly so i suppose this would still count. its a minor violation tho.

I do want some of the ppls thoughts on this tho. A monk considered a master of the super always right forest tradition making the claims explicitly.

"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

TRobinson465
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:37 pm

chownah wrote:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Thailand?....military junta running the country? Even when a popular democratically elected gov't is in charge this is somewhat of a joke. In thailand if you are in the way and don't get out of the way then you are guilty and proof is sort of a secondary sort of circus act sometimes....not always though.
chownah
Speaking of which, heres a situation that has many parallels to whats going on now.

Heres a quote from book thats banned in Thailand. This is my response to the random accusations that all happened to have come to light during the Dictator's reign. You'll notice a few similarities, just change the people and accusations.
Religion reverted back to a royal-centered activity, reinforcing the idea of the king’s dhammaraja and devaraja godliness. Pin also helped regain full palace control over the sangha, a process that involved one of the most crude and cynical displays of royal power during the period. In spite of gains the Thammayut sect (for background this is part of the super-always right forest tradition) had made just after the war, during the 1950s the rival Mahanikay school, backed by Phibun, retained a number of top sangha administrative positions. These monks blocked the palace’s plan to abrogate Phibun’s democratizing Sangha Act of 1941 and restore King Chulalongkorn’s 1902 code, which allowed the throne direct control over the monkhood. Leading the Mahanikay resistance was Phra Phimontham, the abbot of Wat Mahathat, the foremost Mahanikay temple, located near the Grand Palace. Phimontham’s abilities as a wat manager and leader, his monastic discipline, and his religious scholarship were undeniable. By his high rank, he was one of the monks who oversaw the king’s ordination in 1956. In the 1950s he was a certain candidate for the sanghanayok, or sangha premiership, and after that possibly supreme patriarch. Very politically minded, and with a power base rooted among activist monks in northeastern temples, Phimontham had long fought Thammayut elitism as well as government oppression of peasants. When the government said communists should not be allowed in temples, Phimontham countered that a good monk will accept anyone, communist or not. Phimontham’s obstinacy and political views rendered him, to the palace and government, a serious threat. Beginning in the Sarit period, they took strong steps to repress him. In 1958 the Thammayut supreme patriarch died. The presumed heir was the sangha prime minister Plot Kittisophana, a Mahanikay monk whom palace offcials had found fairly cooperative. But they worried that Plot’s vacated sanghanayok place would fall to Phimontham. Working in the palace’s favor was the fact that Plot himself deeply disliked Phimontham. After the supreme patriarch died, the palace, represented by Pin and Prince Dhani, cut a deal in which Plot would be promoted in exchange for freezing Phimontham’s rise. Plot also agreed to abrogate the 1941 Sangha Act and reinstate the royalist act of 1902. Days after his installation on May 5, 1960, Plot obliged. He named the Thammayut monk Juan Uttayi sangha premier. A few weeks later, after the new sangha cabinet declared a policy of weeding out communist monks, Phimontham was arrested and charged by police, falsely, with homosexual behavior, improper dress, and communist leanings, and was ordered to disrobe. When he refused, in October Sarit and Pin had him dislodged as Wat Mahathat abbot. Two weeks after that he was stripped of all of his clerical titles and reduced to a common monk. The scandal rocked the sangha and the public. Phimontham was released from jail after several weeks for lack of evidence. (this was b4 they passed the law stating monks had to be forcibly disrobed if detained i believe) But he returned to Wat Mahathat as a rank-and file monk. Plot meanwhile created a new sangha act that, based on the 1902 charter, recentralized administration under Thammayut control. The sangha premier and cabinet were eliminated, and replaced with the mahatherasamakhom, or sangha council, made up of the most senior titled monks, which in numbers the Thammayut dominated. This new act had several important effects. Although doctrinal differences between the schools had become less significant, putting Thammayut on top ensured that the sangha remained closely allied with the palace, whoever controlled the religious afairs department of the Education Ministry. The monks would advance the palace agenda. This achieved, on June 20, 1962, Phimontham was declared a threat to national security for supporting communists and rearrested, under Sarit’s order. He was forcibly disrobed in a police station with Sarit and two top Thammayut sangha council members watching, and imprisoned for four years. In prison he wore white robes as a symbol of his rejection of civil and royal authority over the sangha. Phimontham’s neutralization completed the palace’s capture of national culture. In schools and temples, history, worship, and tradition could now be manipulated to ensure unquestioning support for Chakri culture and power, and for the triune of nation, religion, and king. By the mid-1960s the memory of 1932 and the Phibun-Pridi interregnum was almost completely snuffed out, or twisted into something evil"


The King Never Smiles. Pg 152-154

For the safety of ppl in Thailand i will not provide a link, dont want any1 getting arrested. Especially with that Single Gateway thing.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

TRobinson465
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:39 pm

BTW for those of you who dont know about the Dictator's single gateway heres some info.


"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

Santi253
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Santi253 » Mon May 22, 2017 5:23 am

The Thai government is corrupt, and it persecutes the Dhammakaya movement due to an irrational fear that it poses a threat to the state. This persecution has nothing to do with whether the Dhammakaya movement is a good thing or not. Ho hum. Now pass the butter.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

TRobinson465
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun May 28, 2017 4:21 am

Interesting that the thread hasnt moved at all since i left. Anyways popping in again (shortly) to share a few things. I hope i dont somehow start up the fighting again but I think these are some nice sources to share.

First off, yeah BkkPost is totally not biased. it even says "The Newspaper you can Trust" on it.
bangkokpost.jpg
bangkokpost.jpg (99.99 KiB) Viewed 1630 times
http://www.bangkokpost.com/print/803228/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... erformance

Im sure nobody at the Bangkok Post does the Dictators bidding. Its not like Thai journalists care about their lives or anything.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... -chan-ocha

Anyways, back to the main topic, heres the sources i wanted to share.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39263793

http://www.wsj.com/video/thailand-dhamm ... 21BF2.html

If you've been reading the other sources ive been putting throughout this thread in addition to these you'll notice a bit of a difference in what newspapers in Juntaland say about the case and what news from the free world are saying.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

TRobinson465
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:47 am

Since I dont really enjoy being on here I hope i dont inadvertedly start the thread up again, I prefer it stay quiet, but since the Bangkok Post archives a lot of their articles I think it would be a good idea to share this here before they lock it up. If you guys remember Dr. Stephen Young mentioned earlier, the pro-junta yellowshirt who had a super secret meeting with Dhammakaya and because he was special he learned all of the super secret crazy doctrines nobody has ever heard of from several "sources" (if you read that piece earlier, every single 'source' was unnamed). Well heres another piece from him.
It seems that a return to normalcy has been achieved since the Department of Special Investigation in March ended its search of Wat Phra Dhammakaya for its elusive former abbot, Phra Dhammajayo. This is good news for Thailand as it will promote a more welcoming environment for political reconciliation and honest elections.

From whatever perspective you adopt, the situation at Wat Phra Dhammakaya was abnormal.

A religious institution allegedly having about 6,000 secret cells of operatives around Thailand is not a normal religious entity. It has instead been seen as a secret society. A religious personage like Phra Dhammajayo who claims the powers of a Bodhisattva or a Taoist celestial master able to visit heaven and hell and shape the karma of our lives is not normal in Theravada Buddhism, Christianity or Islam.

It is more in line with the leadership claims in Chinese White Lotus millenarianism where belief in the supernatural is fused with dreams of political upheaval here on Earth.

The wat's programme to remove "dark" forces from Thailand in order to bring about the reign of "enlightened" persons of pure virtue and excellent karma seemed to be an occult movement, not a normal religion.

The "dark" forces opposed by the wat's inner circle of leaders were the traditional social and political institutions of Theravada Thailand. In driving forward its programme for fundamental change to Thai traditions, the wat's leadership contributed much to the destabilisation of Thai politics over the past 15 years. That was not normal Thai political behaviour.

Nor was it especially secular or democratic because the inner occult teachings and related political agenda were never disclosed to the public as the real mission of the wat and its followers.

With the wat now under the control of more normal Buddhist monks and with the former abbot out of public sight, Thailand can begin to move forward with self-confidence in its core national values and pride in its aspirations for better lives for all.

The sagacity and astute finesse of the government in returning normalcy to Thailand in this case has been remarkable. In my memory of Thai politics, which goes back to 1961, I can recall no similar challenge to fundamental Thai institutions which was resolved so adroitly...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... nity-boost

Yeah, this guy is totally legit. :rofl:

So yeah, for the record, this guy is the "other" source besides Mano Laohavanich that Dhammakaya has a super secret crazy doctrine. Sounds like im reading a piece on the Dalai Lama straight from the Chinese Ministry of propaganda (those are real, a lot of them are a bit funny like this nonsense above). Its quite fitting that the piece is on the Bangkok Post of all places. If you check his profile Dr. Young has written other pieces for BKKPost also, they're quite endearing to Dear Leader. :bow: But hey, with an approval rating almost as high as Kim Jong Un why not sing him praises?

Too bad when the Dictator decided to enlist somebody else to convince the public Dhammakaya was some wacko cult bent on world domination so the Junta would have an excuse to seize the temple that he didnt pick some1 who actually knew Buddhism. What he's describing isn't even close to
the Theravada or Mahayana concept of a Bodhisattva or their powers. (im pretty sure most of you know what an actual Bodhisattva is)
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

Santi253
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Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by Santi253 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:01 am

Santi253 wrote:The Thai government is corrupt, and it persecutes the Dhammakaya movement due to an irrational fear that it poses a threat to the state. This persecution has nothing to do with whether the Dhammakaya movement is a good thing or not. Ho hum. Now pass the butter.
I've never seen any actual evidence to contradict the above.
Non-violence is the greatest virtue, cowardice the greatest vice. - Mahatma Gandhi

http://www.matthewsatori.tumblr.com

TRobinson465
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Wat Dhammakaya

Post by TRobinson465 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:41 am

Santi253 wrote:
Santi253 wrote:The Thai government is corrupt, and it persecutes the Dhammakaya movement due to an irrational fear that it poses a threat to the state. This persecution has nothing to do with whether the Dhammakaya movement is a good thing or not. Ho hum. Now pass the butter.
I've never seen any actual evidence to contradict the above.

Well to be fair its actually hard to provide solid evidence either way on whether or not the Thai Gov is persecuting WPD, unless there was some recording of them saying something. There is a bunch of circumstantial evidence that they are tho, such as the 300 random and unrelated charges, the fact that the current gov is a dictatorship with an atrocoius human rights record and a history of getting rid of political opponents on trumped up charges, and the fact that Thai Dictator has a clear interest in controlling the Sangha. Such taking control of the National office of Buddhism and basically hand-picking the Supreme Patriarch. It would be just as hard prove they aren't of course, unless some1 offers a good non-persecution reason to several of the factors mentioned above and throughout this thread.

As for the 2nd part, id like to point out this thread is on WPD. not the Dhammakaya movement which started 50 years b4 the WPD even existed. If you'd like to learn more about the Dhammakaya movement Dhammafriend did some hard work and has a neat resource thread on it.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f ... =dhammakai
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism"

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