But Master Gotama, do gods absolutely exist?”
Kiṃ nu kho, bho gotama, atthi devā”ti?
“I’ve understood the existence of gods in terms of causes.”
“Ṭhānaso metaṃ, bhāradvāja, viditaṃ yadidaṃ— adhidevā”ti.
“But Master Gotama, when asked ‘Do gods exist?’ why did you say that you have understood the existence of gods in terms of causes?
“Kiṃ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘atthi devā’ti puṭṭho samāno ‘ṭhānaso metaṃ, bhāradvāja, viditaṃ yadidaṃ adhidevā’ti vadesi.
If that’s the case, isn’t it a hollow lie?”
Nanu, bho gotama, evaṃ sante tucchā musā hotī”ti?
“When asked ‘Do gods exist’, whether you reply ‘Gods exist’ or ‘I’ve understood it in terms of causes’
“‘Atthi devā’ti, bhāradvāja, puṭṭho samāno ‘atthi devā’ti yo vadeyya, ‘ṭhānaso me viditā’ti yo vadeyya;
a sensible person would come to the definite conclusion that
atha khvettha viññunā purisena ekaṃsena niṭṭhaṃ gantabbaṃ yadidaṃ:
” ‘atthi devā’”ti.
“But why didn’t you say that in the first place?”
“Kissa pana me bhavaṃ gotamo ādikeneva na byākāsī”ti?
“It’s widely agreed in the world that
“Uccena sammataṃ kho etaṃ, bhāradvāja, lokasmiṃ yadidaṃ:
” ‘atthi devā’”ti.
“Kaccāna, this world mostly relies on the dual notions of existence and non-existence.
“Dvayanissito khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena—atthitañceva natthitañca.
But when you truly see the origin of the world with right understanding, you won’t have the notion of non-existence regarding the world. Lokasamudayaṃ kho, kaccāna, yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya passato yā loke natthitā sā na hoti.
And when you truly see the cessation of the world with right understanding, you won’t have the notion of existence regarding the world. Lokanirodhaṃ kho, kaccāna, yathābhūtaṃ sammappaññāya passato yā loke atthitā sā na hoti.
The world is for the most part shackled to attraction, grasping, and insisting.
Upayupādānābhinivesavinibandho khvāyaṃ, kaccāna, loko yebhuyyena.
atthi seem to be about exist or not, and these notions are swayed by attraction, grasping, insisting. At that time the notion of gods exist was revered.
Perhaps because of authoritian belief that devas exist, when Buddha said that by Thanaso he knows then it was outrageous claim.
and it seem the persons who are swayed are those who cling to perception and sankharas, but who are clinging to vinnana can understand rightly when said gods exists it counts same as said as seen by origin and cessation.