What are the three forms of dukkha?

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Srilankaputra
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What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by Srilankaputra »

"There are these three forms of stressfulness, my friend: the stressfulness of pain(dukkhadukkhatā), the stressfulness of fabrication(saṅkhāradukkhatā), the stressfulness of change(vipariṇāmadukkhatā). These are the three forms of stressfulness."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

How would you define the three forms of dukkha ?

Note: Among these sankharadukkha is considered foremost. From dhammapada, verse 203

"sankharaparama dukha"

The nettippakarana says this is because there is temporary release from other forms of dukkha in higher deva worlds for example.

Thank you!
Last edited by Srilankaputra on Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DooDoot
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by DooDoot »

Suffering about pain. Suffering about change. Suffering of mental proliferation (mental concocting; mental constructing; attachment). Bhikkhu Bodhi below, with a neutral translation:
Bhikkhus, there are these three kinds of suffering. What three? Suffering due to pain, suffering due to formations, suffering due to change. These are the three kinds of suffering. The Noble Eightfold Path is to be developed for direct knowledge of these three kinds of suffering, for the full understanding of them, for their utter destruction, for their abandoning.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn45.165/en/bodhi
SN 22.1 includes the word "vipariṇāma" and shows the translation "suffering of change" is probably inaccurate because SN 22.1 appears to show change (vipariṇāma) can be experienced without suffering. SN 22.1 appears to show it is the clinging to "I am changing" that is the suffering (rather than the change itself).
They’re obsessed with the thought: ‘I am consciousness, consciousness is mine!’ But that consciousness of theirs decays and perishes,

Tassa ‘ahaṃ viññāṇaṃ, mama viññāṇan’ti pariyuṭṭhaṭṭhāyino, taṃ viññāṇaṃ vipariṇamati aññathā hoti.

which gives rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.

They’re not obsessed with the thought: ‘I am consciousness, consciousness is mine!’ So when that consciousness of theirs decays and perishes,

Tassa ‘ahaṃ viññāṇaṃ, mama viññāṇan’ti apariyuṭṭhaṭṭhāyino, taṃ viññāṇaṃ vipariṇamati aññathā hoti.

it doesn’t give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress.

Tassa viññāṇavipariṇāmaññathābhāvā nuppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā

https://suttacentral.net/sn22.1/en/sujato
Similar, SN 36.6 shows "suffering of pain" is probably inaccurate because SN 36.6 shows physical pain can occur without mental suffering.
Srilankaputra wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:30 amNote: Among these sankharadukkha is considered foremost. From dhammapada, verse 203

"sankharaparama dukha"
The above is consistent with my interpretation. The supreme suffering is the suffering of mental proliferating or attachment; as was taught in the 1st noble truth about "upadana".

:smile:

Thank you!
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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form
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by form »

The late Dr W Rahula in his best seller theravada book, what the B taught, explained it like this. There are three kinds of dukka. 1) bodily pain, 2) stuck in moments of the past, 3) attached to aggregates.
ahtisarw
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by ahtisarw »

This three-fold division of dukkha is coming in terms of greed (lobha), hatred (dosa) & delusion (moha) roots.

In The Pitaka-Disclosure (PTS) (p.338) it is explained
the unprofitable root greed moulds itself therefrom by means of the agreeable object (manāpikā ārammaṇā). So with an agreeable object, there is contact to be felt as pleasant (sukhavedanīyo phasso). Depending on contact to be felt as pleasant, pleasant feeling (sukhavedanā) arises. Depending on pleasant feeling, the approach with joy (somanassūpavicāro) arises. Depending on the approach with joy, lust (rāgo) arises. Depending on lust, sensual-desire thinking (kāmavitakko) arises. Depending on sensual-desire thinking, lust-born fever (rāgajo pariḷāho) arises. Depending on lust-born fever, the determined characteristic arising (uppādo saṅkhatalakkhaṇo) arises. Depending on the determined characteristic of arising, painfulness in change (vipariṇāmadukkhatā) arises.
Like wise, it explains the origin of dukkhadukkhatā as well as saṅkhatadukkhatā.

The best way to understand this is by listening to this Lobha Dosa Moha Meditation which uses this table

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SarathW
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by SarathW »

Previous discussions.
Notice there're 3 levels of Dukkha. Higher beings in higher planes might not experience Dukkha-dukkha, the coarser and more obvious form, but they can't avoid Viparinama and Sankhara-dukkha until attaining enlightenment.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33351&p=496890&hilit=
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Volo
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by Volo »

Vism (16:35):
35. Herein, bodily and mental, painful feeling are called intrinsic suffering because of their individual essence, their name, and their painfulness. [Bodily and mental] pleasant feeling are called suffering in change because they are a cause for the arising of pain when they change (M I 303). Equanimous feeling and the remaining formations of the three planes are called suffering due to formations because they are oppressed by rise and fall.
Srilankaputra
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by Srilankaputra »

Thank you! for the replies,

Another verse from the dhammapada
Gahakaraka ditthosi
puna geham na kahasi
sabba te phasuka bhagga
gahakotam visankhatam
visankharagatam cittam
tanhanam khayamajjhaga


O house-builder, you are seen! You will not build this house again. For your rafters are broken and your ridgepole shattered. My mind has reached the Unconditioned; I have attained the destruction of craving.
What do you guys make of the hi-lighted part ?

Wish you all success in all your endeavours. Goodbye!
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: What are the three forms of dukkha?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

The concept of suffering can be seen from three aspects: (i) suffering due to pain (dukkha-dukkhata), (ii) suffering due to change and (viparinama-dukkhata), (iii) suffering inherent in the sankhara- dukkhata). All sorts of suffering in life, such as birth, old age, illness, death, association with people and unpleasant situations, separation of loved ones and pleasant conditions, not getting what you want, sadness, lamentation, stress - all these forms of physical and mental suffering, which are universally accepted as suffering or pain, are included in the suffering aspect due to pain. A pleasant sensation, a happy situation in life, is not permanent, it is not eternal. It changes, sooner or later, and when it does, it produces pain, suffering, unhappiness. This vicissitude is included in the aspect of suffering due to change. It is easy to understand the two forms of suffering mentioned above. No one will contest them. This aspect of the First Noble Truth is more popularly known because it is easy to understand. It is a common experience in our daily lives. But the third kind of suffering inherent in formations is the most important philosophical aspect of the First Noble Truth, and it requires some analytical explanation of what we regard as a "being," as an "individual," or as "I."

What we call "being," or "individual," or "I," according to Buddhist philosophy, is only a combination of constantly changing physical and mental forces / energies that can be divided into five groups or aggregates .

Source in Portuguese: http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/dhp/dhp2.28.php


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