Eternal citta in "Theravada"? ---> probably Found.

[chownah]

contact at the intellect as they actually are present, knowing & seeing whatever arises conditioned through intellect-contact — experienced as pleasure, pain, or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — as it actually is present, one is not infatuated with the intellect...

one is (just) not infatuated with the intellect

You asked for sutta references where the mind is given as one of the six sense media.
The fire sermon and the link I just gave clearly shows that the mind is one of the six sense media.....there are quite a few other sutta references that show the same.
("intelect" and "mind" are the same thing as used in the suttas.....different translations use either one or the other)
chownah

[cappuccino]

You asked for sutta references where the mind is given as one of the six sense media.

again, one is not infatuated with the intellect

this is different than annihilation

[chownah]

This is the beginning of my discussion about the mind being one of the six sense media:

The mind is one of the six.
chownah

where is this in the scriptures?

So, I don't know how the idea of annihilation or infatuation has come into the discussion.

The point I am making is that the mind is one of the six sense media. I have presented sutta references which clearly say that it is.....and there are many more I have not brought.

I have no idea what you are discussing now.
chownah

[cappuccino]

I don't know how the idea of annihilation or infatuation has come into the discussion.

I have no idea what you are discussing now.

Eternal citta in Theravada

[chownah]

I don't know how the idea of annihilation or infatuation has come into the discussion.

I have no idea what you are discussing now.

Eternal citta in Theravada

Citta is a dhamma and all dhammas are impermanent.
chownah

[ToVincent]

SN 47.42 is a very dubious sutta, when one looks at its parallel SA 609.

The OP question is somewhat:
"Is there an eternal citta? ".

First, one must understand citassa (https://justpaste.it/211kn), the upakkiliṭṭha (defiled) citta (AN 3.70).

This defiled citta acts somewhat in pair with mano.
Maybe this is why translators usually translate them both as "mind". A mistake.

Once the citta is liberated through sati (https://justpaste.it/5ohh2) and samadhi (https://justpaste.it/5x298), ONE MUST ALSO liberate him/herself from the citta in the higher jhanas.

As stated in SN 46.3: "withdrawal of body and withdrawal of citta (kāyavūpakāsena ca cittavūpakāsena ca).

In other words, stop alienating (transfering property or ownership) with the body and citta.
Get off the "I am 'this' " - Get of the " 'I' am".

Vūpakāseti, fr. vavakassati [v+ava+kṛṣ] / Sk. व्यवकृष् vyavakṛṣ [vy-ava-√ kṛṣ]) = alienate].

---------

I then, hardly see how there can be an eternal citta, unless "eternal" means "with no time involved".
However there is nothing such as a "permanent" one's own (nicca) citta.
.

[cappuccino]

Citta is a dhamma and all dhammas are impermanent.

this is not my understanding of the teaching

[simsapa]

this is not my understanding of the teaching

What's your understanding?

[cappuccino]

this is not my understanding of the teaching

What's your understanding?

that nothing is changed except our relation to things


resulting in a different kind of existence


which is gradual… not a quantum leap

[simsapa]

I guess the heart of the matter is: What exactly is the citta (as opposed to the vinnana), and is it eternal (lasting life after life in some way) or not?

[cappuccino]

I guess the heart of the matter is: What exactly is the citta (as opposed to the vinnana), and is it eternal (lasting life after life in some way) or not?

[simsapa]

I dunno either.

[dhammacoustic]

Once the citta is liberated through sati (https://justpaste.it/5ohh2) and samadhi (https://justpaste.it/5x298), ONE MUST ALSO liberate him/herself from the citta in the higher jhanas.

As stated in SN 46.3: "withdrawal of body and withdrawal of citta

liberate oneself from the citta? that is a good one. why don't you liberate yourself from nibbana too while you're at it!!

do you even understand that quote from sn 46.3?

[Agnikan]

What happened to the idea that all dhammas are impermanent?
Isn't citta a dhamma?
Isn't citta therefore impermanent?
chownah

Nibbana is a dhamma, too, an unconditioned dhamma.

[Eko Care]

It'd be a good idea to save this file Ajahn Martin , in case of probable future deletion, similar to the fate of "some links" mentioned in the pdf.

I have read this some years ago. Why don't they use a different name for their sect like Thera-yana or Maha-vada or something like that?

Here is how to mix things up for fun:
(mixing of atman, soul, citta, Self, nibbana, happiness)

Have you ever heard any unorthodox view from lady Sayadaw about kamma or anusaya (as "Paramattha Jatika" but not "Paramattha")? Is it a misunderstanding?

Had Ledi Sayadaw ever said something unorthodox in this regard?
I heard one of the Abhidhamma teachers said that Ledi Sayadaw introduced or explained a concept called "Paramattha Jatika Dhamma" related to energies such as "kamma/anusaya ..etc." which is not considered anicca or something like that.
And I heard same explanation goes regarding rebirth as well.
Is this a misunderstanding?

Does it have something related to following views/notions of self (2.a.) and (2.b.)

https://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php/Pudgalavada
Notions of self
....
2.a. There is no self but there is a frequency transfer of kammic energies (some interpretations)
2.b. What is reborn? Neuroses (Chogyam Trungpa) Similar and alternate terms for what is reborn: psychological tendencies, karma, cravings
2.c. There is no permanent self, but there is a mind stream which is individual and continues (some interpretations)
2.d. There is no permanent self, but there is an indeterminate, inexpressible self (pudgalavada)
2.e. There is no self but there is a Ālāya-vijñāna (store-house consciousness) accounting for kamma and rebirth (Mahayana-Yogachara)
2.f. There is no permanent self but there is citta (mind) which never dies (some Forest traditions and other modern interpretations in Theravada and Mahayana)
2.g. An individual entity, but merges with universal consciousness with nirvana (Advaita, Hinduism, and other pantheistic traditions)
...