Does consciousness exist?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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cappuccino
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post by cappuccino »

Circle5 wrote: We have a sutta where Buddha speaks directly about this:
permanent & impermanent

SamKR
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post by SamKR »

Nicolas wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:54 pm
SamKR wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:31 pm
Translating vinnana as "consciousness" is causing a lot of confusion. Is there a better English word for vinnana? I would prefer "dualistic knowing" or "discriminative knowing" (based on the meaning of vinnana) though it sounds clumsy and I am not a native English speaker, so I am not sure.
Hi SamKR!
Vinnana can be synonymous with citta and mano:
Assutavā Sutta (SN 12.61) wrote: But, bhikkhus, as to that which is called ‘citta’ and ‘mano’ and ‘viññāṇa’ —the uninstructed worldling is unable to experience revulsion towards it, unable to become dispassionate towards it and be liberated from it. For what reason? Because for a long time this has been held to by him, appropriated, and grasped thus: ‘This is mine, this I am, this is my self.’ Therefore the uninstructed worldling is unable to experience revulsion towards it, unable to become dispassionate towards it and be liberated from it.
... so I am satisfied with the word "consciousness" as its translation.
I forgot earlier to mention that by vinnana here I mean vinnana of dependent origination that depends upon sankhara. For that vinnana ,"consciousness" appears to be a misleading translation since consciousness has so many layers of meaning in English. I mean the spectrum of different meanings of consciousness is too big compared to the spectrum of meaning of vinnana. Also, in my opinion, ‘citta’ and ‘mano’ and ‘viññāṇa’ are not exact same thing. Although they are related they refer to different aspects of experience.

SamKR
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post by SamKR »

alfa wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:16 am
If nirvana is the cessation of consciousness, then how is it different from a stone-like existence? Isn't it like saying we will be like inert objects once we attain nirvana?
Phrases like "we will be", "inert objects", and "attain" does not apply to nirvana. It is because nirvana is the cessation of these ideas: the idea of "we will be", the idea of "objects", and the idea of "attaining" - all of these ideas may sustain unless there is cessation of consciousness (by consciousness I mean vinnana that depends upon sankhara). But "the state" upon nirvana is not the state of annihilation (I used the word "state" which is misleading if it is understood in the sense of a state of experience - because it is indescribable in positive words).

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cappuccino
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

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“When a person has gone out, then there is nothing by which you can measure him. That by which he can be talked about is no longer there for him; you cannot say that he does not exist. When all ways of being, all phenomena are removed, then all ways of description have also been removed.”
~ SN 1074-6, (Ven. H. Saddhatissa trans.)

chownah
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post by chownah »

I think that there is a big difference between what a lay person thinks when they see an arahant walking around the streets when that lay person says "she is obviously conscious since she is walking around" and what the arahant thinks when she is walking around.
chownah

form
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Re: Does consciousness exist?

Post by form »

chownah wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:33 am
I think that there is a big difference between what a lay person thinks when they see an arahant walking around the streets when that lay person says "she is obviously conscious since she is walking around" and what the arahant thinks when she is walking around.
chownah
Too bad we dun hv a certified arahat that is alive to study him.

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