Ontology vs Soteriology

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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alfa
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Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by alfa » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am

Friends :smile:

When I was young, ontology mattered a lot more.

Now that I am getting older, soteriology has taken prime importance.

All the details give me a headache, and the only question I keep asking myself is: what is the way out?

Have you had a similar experience?

At some point, you stop worrying about the ontological status of self etc. and instead think only of liberation.

Therefore, the question is: is practice more important than knowledge?

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retrofuturist
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by retrofuturist » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:49 am

Greetings Alfa,
alfa wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am
At some point, you stop worrying about the ontological status of self etc. and instead think only of liberation.
Good for you. :thumbsup:
alfa wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am
Therefore, the question is: is practice more important than knowledge?
What "practice"?

The Noble Eightfold Path is what is important.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

Srilankaputra
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by Srilankaputra » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:55 am

yes. I used to think science might hold all the answers. Then i realised or may be i read it some where, science is a process of ever refining saññas or mental models of the world. Scientists still don't know how far down or up the rabbit hole goes.

'Ontology vs Soteriology' ; I would say whats peaceful is going beyond both. Whatever saññas are simply saññas. They arise and cease with contact.
O seeing one,we for refuge go to thee!
O mighty sage do thou our teacher be!

Paccuppannañca yo dhammaṃ,
Tattha tattha vipassati

“Yato yato mano nivāraye,
Na dukkhameti naṃ tato tato;
Sa sabbato mano nivāraye,
Sa sabbato dukkhā pamuccatī”ti.

paul
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by paul » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:17 am

alfa wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am
Therefore, the question is: is practice more important than knowledge?
Practice is the most important, but to do that the practitioner has to understand the noble eightfold path, so knowledge contributes. I recommend "The Noble Eightfold Path" by Bikkhu Bodhi.

budo
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by budo » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:40 am

Practice and Knowledge are one in the same.
"And how is one the type of person who both thunders and rains? There is the case where a person has mastered the Dhamma: dialogues... question & answer sessions. He discerns, as it actually is present, that 'This is stress.' ... 'This is the origination of stress.' ... 'This is the cessation of stress.' ... 'This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.' This is the type of person who both thunders and rains. This type of person, I tell you, is like the thunderhead that both thunders and rains.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Practice is like throwing a dart, Theory is like knowing where to throw the dart. You need both.

The only person who can have practice without a prior theory is the Buddha or Pacceka Buddha, but note even he attains his theory from a prior Buddha by recollecting his past lives with previous Buddhas and hearing the Dhamma that way.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by JamesTheGiant » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:07 am

James starts by looking up the meaning of Ontology and Soteriology...
I used to know what those words meant, back when I got a degree in philosophy.
Not any more, now I just follow the path.

SamKR
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by SamKR » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:37 am

alfa wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am

Therefore, the question is: is practice more important than knowledge?
Knowledge (knowledge that is relevant to awakening) is an aspect of practice, and practice may lead to more clear knowledge. Practice is not some mechanical activity - it starts and ends with knowledge.

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Mkoll
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by Mkoll » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:54 am

alfa wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:39 am
Friends :smile:

When I was young, ontology mattered a lot more.

Now that I am getting older, soteriology has taken prime importance.

All the details give me a headache, and the only question I keep asking myself is: what is the way out?

Have you had a similar experience?

At some point, you stop worrying about the ontological status of self etc. and instead think only of liberation.

Therefore, the question is: is practice more important than knowledge?
Yes. Renowned teachers teach this, not to mention the Buddha himself. He repeatedly says "Meditate, do not be negligent, lest you regret it later." Of course, a baseline intellectual understanding of what to practice and how to approach it is needed. But beyond that, the work itself is the only thing that generates real results.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Circle5
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Re: Ontology vs Soteriology

Post by Circle5 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:35 pm

Buddha said there are 2 types of disciples: those that are dragged forward by wisdom and those that are dragged by tranquility. A person doing good with wisdom will then start doing better in other areas too. On the other hand, a person doing good with his overall traits will slowly start gaining more wisdom over time.

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