How to practise sati ?

[SkillfulA]

Satipathana or Anapanasati is the practice of Sati.

Yes, I noticed that , but how do you relate it with paticasamuppada ?

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

[DooDoot]

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

Paticasamuppada appears also included in Kayanupassana. The term "kaya sankhara"is found in the 2nd condition of Paticasamuppada as well as the 4th step of Anapanasati. Also, the term "citta sankhara" is found in the 2nd condition of Paticasamuppada as well as the 7th & 8th step of Anapanasati.

[sentinel]

Satipathana or Anapanasati is the practice of Sati.

Yes, I noticed that , but how do you relate it with paticasamuppada ?

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

OK, but , can you elaborate how mindful of breathing related to dependent origination and how dhammaupasana works ?

[SkillfulA]

Yes, I noticed that , but how do you relate it with paticasamuppada ?

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

OK, but , can you elaborate how mindful of breathing related to dependent origination and how dhammaupasana works ?

Of course but first I need to know your understanding in detail of that what you are asking me to explain. I can then fill the gaps.

[SkillfulA]

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

Paticasamuppada appears also included in Kayanupassana. The term "kaya sankhara"is found in the 2nd condition of Paticasamuppada as well as the 4th step of Anapanasati. Also, the term "citta sankhara" is found in the 2nd condition of Paticasamuppada as well as the 7th & 8th step of Anapanasati.

Of course, at least some of the terms found in the paticasamuppada appear or are referred to in each and every single teaching. "With this there is this" etc happens constantly here and now but being aware of it or paying attention to it is another topic.

[auto]

If you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!

What about coming aware of manual breathing where you can't forget the breathing and have to just breath in and out like walking you have to walk if you want to reach your destination. If you don't do breathing you start feel suffocation.

I first handedly know that i am breathing in and out since its me who is doing it otherwise noone does it and i start feel suffocation.

its prolly not kayasankhara doing the breathing here. Maybe cittasankhara

The instruction is not to interfere with breathing. 'You' actually don't need to be around for breathing to take place. The body breathes on its own unlike walking.

And if it's 'you' who breathe, 'you' should be able to stop breathing at will. Is it really under ' 'your' control? Breath is tied up with the body.

i am aware of that i am doing the breathing, its on Suttas.

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato

Whenever a mendicant knows that they breathe heavily, or lightly, or experiencing the whole body, or stilling the body’s motion—at that time they’re meditating by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

It is me the self not kaya nor citta(these are sankharas what i use to do the breathing) doing the breathing. This translation more like hints towards multidimensional self.
OK you say not to interfere with the breathing but read the second half of the quote in a case when you wouldn't be aware:
As of when you are not aware that you are doing the breathing then you are not meditating the aspect of a body.

The crucial part is when becoming aware of ourselves there will something enter the body at that moment, you will cultivate that becoming aware in separate occasions till you catch that moment with correct awareness, it will be stored in body it will rise into head at some point.

Also even when you are doing breathing practice, then depending on what stage you are you are actually cultivating some other aspect(feeling or mind)
You can through breath access sensual centers what are responsible for feelings.

as always, sense of self is crucial, you can deny it fervently but it occurs later when you are aware of breath not the regular ventilation and focusing on tip of the nose instruction is idk what for.. perhaps its something to do with the tiny channel near nose, palate of the mouth..

[Manopubbangama]

... you are missing the point.

I am not the one misguiding others to fruitless practise.

This is a pretty serious allegation and claim.

For the rest of us beings who don't really understand your posts or what exactly you are attempting to communicate, can we at least have the pleasure of knowing from whom we are being edified?

I believe you are a follower of the buddhadasa gentleman?

I would like to have a path as fruitful as possible so please let us know from whom we can get pure information.

Is following the Mahasi Method misguided and fruitless and is his interpretation of Sati defiled and unenlightened?

My current understanding of Sati is that it is awareness.

Please let me know if I am misled.

[sentinel]

Paticasamuppada is included in Dhammanupassana.

OK, but , can you elaborate how mindful of breathing related to dependent origination and how dhammanupassana works ?

Of course but first I need to know your understanding in detail of that what you are asking me to explain. I can then fill the gaps.

While you watching the breathes for example , how do you relate it with ignorance and how to abandon ignorance ?

What is dhammanupassana and how that has to do with training in meditation ?

[SkillfulA]

OK, but , can you elaborate how mindful of breathing related to dependent origination and how dhammanupassana works ?

Of course but first I need to know your understanding in detail of that what you are asking me to explain. I can then fill the gaps.

While you watching the breathes for example , how do you relate it with ignorance and how to abandon ignorance ?

What is dhammanupassana and how that has to do with training in meditation ?

Do you remember the definition of ignorance?

Have you ever read the satipatthana sutta?

[sentinel]

Of course but first I need to know your understanding in detail of that what you are asking me to explain. I can then fill the gaps.

While you watching the breathes for example , how do you relate it with ignorance and how to abandon ignorance ?

What is dhammanupassana and how that has to do with training in meditation ?

Do you remember the definition of ignorance?

Have you ever read the satipatthana sutta?

I will read the text for you .

[SkillfulA]

It is me the self not kaya nor citta(these are sankharas what i use to do the breathing) doing the breathing. This translation more like hints towards multidimensional self.

What is a multidimensional self?

Can you pinpoint down that self?

What does and can that self do? Is he the one who gives commands right?

Kaya and citta is not you, you are just using it right? Are they under your command?

[auto]

It is me the self not kaya nor citta(these are sankharas what i use to do the breathing) doing the breathing. This translation more like hints towards multidimensional self.

What is a multidimensional self?

Can you pinpoint down that self?

What does and can that self do? Is he the one who gives commands right?

Kaya and citta is not you, you are just using it right? Are they under your command?

when you are aware of you are breathing in and out heavily etc you are meditating an aspect of body <-- That is after cessation of feeling and perception.

cittasankhara meditation is this part,

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

"No... There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With that he abandons passion. No passion-obsession gets obsessed there.[4] There is the case where a monk considers, 'O when will I enter & remain in the dimension that those who are noble now enter & remain in?' And as he thus nurses this yearning for the unexcelled liberations, there arises within him sorrow based on that yearning. With that he abandons resistance. No resistance-obsession gets obsessed there.[5] There is the case where a monk, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. With that he abandons ignorance. No ignorance-obsession gets obsessed there."[6]

facing the self or pinpointing the self, meditating an aspect of a citta. That is you got to know the Name.

it is this part

"Now what, lady, lies on the other side of pleasant feeling?"
"Passion lies on the other side of pleasant feeling."
"And what lies on the other side of painful feeling?"
"Resistance lies on the other side of painful feeling." [7]
"What lies on the other side of neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"
"Ignorance lies on the other side of neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling."
"What lies on the other side of ignorance?"
"Clear knowing lies on the other side of ignorance."
"What lies on the other side of clear knowing?"
"Release lies on the other side of clear knowing."
"What lies on the other side of release?"
"Unbinding lies on the other side of release."

"What lies on the other side of Unbinding?"

so what in your opinion lies on the otherside of the Unbinding?

it is you.

[DooDoot]

This is a pretty serious allegation and claim.

It seems you did not read my post; which was loaded with quotes from the suttas about what mindfulness (sati) is.

For the rest of us beings who don't really understand your posts or what exactly you are attempting to communicate

Indeed. I recall you started a thread on this forum how you once believed you attained jhana but now have forgotten how to reach jhana. This appears to provide support for what I wrote about "practise".

can we at least have the pleasure of knowing from whom we are being edified?

Again, the tendency to focus on "personality views" and the reification of "distinct solid defined personalities" is contrary to higher Buddhist practise. Again, my post was loaded with quotes from the suttas about what mindfulness (sati) is. I suggest you read these quotes and reply to them. My impression is this forum is about Theravada Buddhism rather than about personality or identitarian views.

I believe you are a follower of the buddhadasa gentleman?

No. Your "belief" is definitely false. But will post a story about him on another thread. This said, I know his teachings well and his teachings about sati i agree with. However, I have never met an actual Western follower or disciple of Buddhadasa that knows what sati is. The last time I discussed sati with the American translator & disciple of Buddhadasa, the translator held views similar to you but admitted i had views similar to Buddhadasa (however my views were derived independent of Buddhadasa & independent of any teacher, including the Buddha). This said, the translator was never a dedicated meditator. He was more of a social activist who became a householder cuddling up to a woman.

I would like to have a path as fruitful as possible so please let us know from whom we can get pure information.

Sorry but "whom" won't bring fruit. If a mind does not have the capacity or disposition to let go of personality views, they probably can't practise what I posted from the Buddha about how to practise sati.

Is following the Mahasi Method misguided and fruitless and is his interpretation of Sati defiled and unenlightened?

I've never read anything about Mahasi Method, apart from hearing about noting things and noting 'rising & falling'. Yes, in my personal view this method won't bring the fruit of the Buddha because the Buddha appeared not teach like this, per the many sutta quotes I posted. I think your topic about your "jhana" might answer your own question above.

My current understanding of Sati is that it is awareness.
Please let me know if I am misled.

If you have been following the current topics on sati & anapanasati, you would know my view on the matter. As for the term "awareness", I think this English term is far too broad, vague & multi-meaning to be used for any Pali term. "Sati" means "remembering".

What is sammasati? Sati means to bear in mind or bring to mind. Sati is the state of recollecting, the state of remembering, the state of non-fading, the state of non-forgetting. Sati means the sati that is a Spiritual Faculty, the sati that is a Spiritual Power, Sammasati, the Sati that is an Enlightenment Factor, that which is a Path Factor and that which is related to the Path. This is what is called sammasati." [Vbh.105, 286]

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... ulness.htm

The quote above says sati means '"remembering/recollecting". Buddhadasa says this. Ajahn Jayasaro says this. Even Ajahn Sujato says this. DooDoot says this. The three Western disciples of Buddhadasa I know don't say this. Manopubbangama doesn't say this. Dinsdale doesn't say this.

[Manopubbangama]

My impression is this forum is about Theravada Buddhism rather than about personality or identitarian views.

I would like to have a path as fruitful as possible so please let us know from whom we can get pure information.

Sorry but "whom" won't bring fruit. If a mind does not have the capacity or disposition to let go of personality views, they probably can't practise what I posted from the Buddha about how the practise sati.

My current understanding of Sati is that it is awareness.
Please let me know if I am misled.

If you have been following the current topics on sati & anapanasati, you would know my view on the matter. As for the term "awareness", I think this English term is far too broad, vague & multi-meaning to be used for any Pali term. "Sati" means "remembering".

Okay.....

Well, I am trying to follow your train of thought, I'm really trying, dude.

But I guess I don't really, to be honest.

I understand almost all of the posters here, have learned quite a bit from some, been impressed by a few, but "you" *wink wink are the only person here that really makes virtually no sense to me.

I just see that you feel that you and your teacher buddhadasa have the correct understanding of Sati and about 99% of us are totally and absolutely mislead, and cannot understand "your" *wink wink point of view.

Perhaps, since your beliefs are right, everyone else here is wrong, but no one is following your logic, you can post a buddhadasa article about Sati, in order to help your fellow Theravadins understand the true path?

No. Your "belief" is definitely false. But will post a story about him on another thread. This said, I know his teachings well and his teachings about sati i agree with. However, I have never met an actual Western follower or disciple of Buddhadasa that knows what sati is.

Since you personally know the translator of Buddhadasa and he is wrong and admitted it to you, don't you think you should pick up the flag and run with translating him "your"self? Especially if he is equally as mislead as myself?

Are you fluent in Thai?

Maybe this could help us all understand the True meaning of Sati?

Because right now I feel that I will stick with the Mahasi method despite the fact that you feel that your understanding of the Buddhadhamma is superior to "his."

Right now I think of vipassana as insight into anicca, dukkha and anatta.

I've never read anything about Mahasi Method, apart from hearing about noting things and noting 'rising & falling'. Yes, in my personal view this method won't bring the fruit of the Buddha because the Buddha appeared not teach like this, per the many sutta quotes I posted. I think your topic about your "jhana" might answer your own question above.

Dude...Mahasi didn't even teach jhana....

I think you should educate yourself a bit more about Mahasi Sayadaw before proclaiming your view of the Buddhadhamma as superior to his......

[DooDoot]

Okay.....

Well, I am trying to follow your train of thought, I'm really trying, dude.

Sorry but I quoted many suttas. It seems the issue is not following the suttas.

but "you" *wink wink are the only person here that really makes virtually no sense to me.

Imo, this is an unfortunate place to be; to not be able to follow the suttas.

I just see that you feel that you and your teacher buddhadasa have the correct understanding of Sati

I posted Buddhadasa is not my teacher and that the same views on sati are held by Sujato, Jayasaro, sutta, abidhamma, etc.

and about 99% of us are totally and absolutely mislead

Indeed, i hold this view (as least concerning the translation of 'anapanasati'), which is supported by sutta.

you can post a buddhadasa article about Sati, in order to help your fellow Theravadins understand the true path?

I posted from the suttas. If you are interested in Buddhasadasa, search for 'Natural Cure for Spiritual Disease'.

Because right now I feel that I will stick with the Mahasi method despite the fact that you feel that your understanding of the Buddhadhamma is superior to "his."

Do whatever you want. But, yes, I personally view my personal understanding of Buddhadhamma as superior to Mahasi.