I quoted the text for you. The word "observing" ("anupassi") is not mindfulness (sati). Your ideas appear to have no basis in the Pali nor in the Satipatthana Sutta.
How to practise sati ?
Re: How to practise sati ?
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
Re: How to practise sati ?
Do not worry too much about the categories. Just do the practice.Dinsdale wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:42 amThe Satipatthana Sutta describes the practice of sati.
The four tetrads of anapanasati look like a derivative version of satipatthana, where attention is split between the breath and lots of other things. Rather confusing, like trying to do two things at once.
The other problem with the four tetrads is the lack of consensus about how they should be practiced. Note the endless and inconclusive discussions on forums like this one.
They all will come together one day.
Even though there are four tetrads they do not have to be in sequence contrary to the popular belief.
This applies to the Noble Eightfold Path as well.
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Re: How to practise sati ?
How can just being mindful is able to abandon wrong view ?
You always gain by giving
Re: How to practise sati ?
Could you provide pali for arise and cease ?Dinsdale wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:13 amThere are four foundations of mindfulness or frames of reference - body, feeling, mind and dhamma. These are described in the Satipatthana Sutta, MN10.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The basic practice is to pay attention to various aspects of experience, and to understand more clearly how phenomena arise and cease.
You always gain by giving
Re: How to practise sati ?
Sati is being aware ?
You always gain by giving
Re: How to practise sati ?
If you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: How to practise sati ?
What about coming aware of manual breathing where you can't forget the breathing and have to just breath in and out like walking you have to walk if you want to reach your destination. If you don't do breathing you start feel suffocation.pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:02 amIf you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!
I first handedly know that i am breathing in and out since its me who is doing it otherwise noone does it and i start feel suffocation.
its prolly not kayasankhara doing the breathing here. Maybe cittasankhara
Re: How to practise sati ?
https://suttacentral.net/mn118/pli/ms
samadhiyati = recluse have been born.
cittam samadhiyati
sukhino cittam samadhiyati
Passadddhakayassa sukhino cittam samadhiyati
breath comes calm then awareness connects to it and rises up to head from body.
samadhiyati = recluse have been born.
cittam samadhiyati
sukhino cittam samadhiyati
Passadddhakayassa sukhino cittam samadhiyati
breath comes calm then awareness connects to it and rises up to head from body.
Re: How to practise sati ?
The instruction is not to interfere with breathing. 'You' actually don't need to be around for breathing to take place. The body breathes on its own unlike walking.auto wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:48 pmWhat about coming aware of manual breathing where you can't forget the breathing and have to just breath in and out like walking you have to walk if you want to reach your destination. If you don't do breathing you start feel suffocation.pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:02 amIf you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!
I first handedly know that i am breathing in and out since its me who is doing it otherwise noone does it and i start feel suffocation.
its prolly not kayasankhara doing the breathing here. Maybe cittasankhara
And if it's 'you' who breathe, 'you' should be able to stop breathing at will. Is it really under ' 'your' control? Breath is tied up with the body.
Last edited by pegembara on Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: How to practise sati ?
Ardent alert and mindful, setting aside pain and distress in regards to the world.
It's the satipatana refrain. Try to apply that and you will be more mindful.
In truth
Cittasanto
It's the satipatana refrain. Try to apply that and you will be more mindful.
In truth
Cittasanto
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: How to practise sati ?
But , when we observing breath and asking or questioning , we are not really watching already right ?pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:02 amIf you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!
You always gain by giving
Re: How to practise sati ?
You are investigating what you have already observed. Without investigation(dhammavicaya) you are not putting the Buddha's teachings to the test.James Tan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:57 amBut , when we observing breath and asking or questioning , we are not really watching already right ?pegembara wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:02 amIf you can observe the breath without interference, ask
"Who" or 'what' breathes?
What causes the air to move in and out? Is it the diaphragm, chest muscles, lungs, nerve signals, brain, lack of O2, excessive CO2 etc?
The inescapable conclusion is that breathing is the result of various causes and conditions. No one is actually doing the breathing!
The second enlightenment factor is dhammavicaya, keen investigation of the Dhamma. It is the sharp analytical knowledge of understanding the true nature of all constituent things animate or inanimate, human or divine. It is seeing things as they really are; seeing things in their proper perspective. It is the analysis of all component things into their fundamental elements, right down to their ultimates. Through keen investigation one understands that all compounded things pass through the inconceivably rapid moments of uppada, thiti, and bhanga, or of arising, reaching a peak, and ceasing, just as a river in flood sweeps to a climax and fades away. The whole universe is constantly changing, not remaining the same for two consecutive moments. All things in fact are subjected to causes, conditions, and effects (hetu, paccaya, and phala). Systematic reflection (yoniso manasikara) comes naturally through right mindfulness, and it urges one to discriminate, to reason and investigate. Shallow thinking, unsystematic investigation (ayoniso manasikara) makes men muddle-headed; and then they fail to investigate the nature of things. Such people cannot see cause and effect, seed and fruit, the rise and fall of compounded things. Says the Buddha: "This doctrine is for the wise and not for the unwise."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... el001.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
-
- Posts: 10157
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: How to practise sati ?
The Satipatthana Sutta is all about observing ( anupassi ). That is the practice. Mn10 doesn't go on about recollecting a teachers instruction, or whatever. Neither does MN 118.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
-
- Posts: 10157
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: How to practise sati ?
Exactly. It is about observation and subsequent investigation. Not about recollecting what a teacher has said, or whatever.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: How to practise sati ?
Why are you attempting to use what I posted about "anupassi" against me & claiming it as your view? "Anupassi" is not 'sati". As for the Satipatthana Sutta, it is actually about "non-attachment" and "letting go". The whole Dhamma is about this. The role of "sati" is to let go. The role of "sati" is unrelated to "observing". The "observing" happens automatically when the mind lets go.
He remains... mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.
MN 10
And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to ) anything in the world.
MN 10
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view : This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view.
MN 117
There is the case where a monk develops mindfulness as a factor for awakening dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment/letting go (vossagga).
MN 118
And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go (vossagga) , attains concentration, attains singleness of mind. Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana...
SN 48.10
Here, ruler of gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to . When a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to, he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having directly known everything, he fully understood everything
MN 37
No. I am not the one missing the point. I am not the one misguiding others to fruitless practise. The role of 'sati' is not 'observing'. The role of sati is the 'gatekeeper', which remembers to keep the mind free from defilements & wrong views.
Wisdom is about observation and subsequent investigation; not sati. "Sati" is about recollecting what a teacher has said. "Sati" remembers:
1. The Buddha said to abandon craving therefore keep the mind free from craving.
2. The Buddha said to not attach to anything therefore keep the mind free from attachment.
3. The Buddha said conditioned things are impermanent therefore do not grasp at anything conditioned as being permanent.
4. The Buddha said conditioned things are unsatisfactory therefore do not grasp at anything conditioned as being satisfactory.
5. The Buddha said conditioned things are not-self therefore do not grasp at anything conditioned as being self.
Above is what "sati" does. It remembers what the teacher said so to keep the mind is a state of non-attachment & non-craving.
Let us repeat what the Buddha taught about this:
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view : This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view.
MN 117
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati