How to practise sati ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
sentinel
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by sentinel »

Remembering has to do with the Past , but , the practice of Sati has to do with Present Moment .

sati is :
Or mindfulness

Being aware :

On Purpose ,
Present Moment ,
and
Nonjudgementally .
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SkillfulA
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by SkillfulA »

Manopubbangama
For the rest of us beings who don't really understand your posts or what exactly you are attempting to communicate,...
Not quite sure which group of people "rest of us" you are referring to but eg I can follow his posts so far just fine.

DooDoot
I posted Buddhadasa is not my teacher and that the same views on sati are held by Sujato, Jayasaro, sutta, abidhamma, etc.
You can include Ven. Thanissaro in that list.

Here a short quote from "on the path" by him
...
"Ardent, alert, and mindful. The qualities that have to be brought to bear on the two activities of establishing mindfulness are three: alertness (sampajañña), mindfulness (sati), and ardency (ātappa).

• Alertness is never defined in the suttas, but is illustrated by examples showing that it’s the ability to be aware of what you are doing in the present moment (§§247–248). In other words, it’s not simply a general awareness of the present; instead, it focuses specifically on the question of your actions—in body, speech, and mind—along with their consequences.

Mindfulness, in this case, means your active memory: the things you keep in mind to remember where to stay focused in the present moment and what to do with whatever arises in relationship to that focus.

• Ardency is another term that is not defined in the suttas but is illustrated by examples (§§244–246). In this case, the examples show that it is identical with right effort. Because the Pāli term for ardency, ātappa, is related to ottappa—compunction, or the fear of the consequences of unskillful actions—the two are commonly paired, especially in poetry. As a result, ardency carries connotations of heedfulness and vigilance in avoiding any actions that would lead to harm.

In this way, all three of these qualities, as sub-factors for right mindfulness, are informed by right view and right resolves: Alertness keeps focused on what right view identifies as the important problem of the present moment—your actions; mindfulness, are informed by right view and right resolves: Alertness keeps focused on what right view identifies as the important problem of the present moment—your actions; mindfulness keeps in mind the lessons of right view to apply to that problem; and ardency, informed by right resolve, makes the right effort to carry out those lessons for the sake of a true and blameless happiness.

So even though the act of establishing mindfulness is primarily concerned with getting the mind into concentration, it contains elements of discernment as well. This illustrates the point made by §53, that there is no jhāna without discernment.
...


Suttas

“And which is the faculty of mindfulness? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, is mindful, endowed with excellent proficiency in mindfulness, remembering & recollecting what was done and said a long time ago. He remains focused on the body in & of itself—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves… the mind in & of itself… dhammas in & of themselves—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called the faculty of mindfulness.” — SN 48:10
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Manopubbangama
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by Manopubbangama »

SkillfulA wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am
Manopubbangama
For the rest of us beings who don't really understand your posts or what exactly you are attempting to communicate,...
Not quite sure which group of people "rest of us" you are referring to but eg I can follow his posts so far just fine.
Depends on the posts. When it comes to quantifying the etymological significance of the word "Sati" the train of thought is painfully obvious.

When it comes to following a guy who claimed that Buddhism is by nature "socialist" but then pejoratively using the term "social justice warrior" to harass people one disagrees with, that becomes a bit more interesting.
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SkillfulA
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by SkillfulA »

Manopubbangama wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:54 am
SkillfulA wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am
Manopubbangama
For the rest of us beings who don't really understand your posts or what exactly you are attempting to communicate,...
Not quite sure which group of people "rest of us" you are referring to but eg I can follow his posts so far just fine.
Depends on the posts. When it comes to quantifying the etymological significance of the word "Sati" the train of thought is painfully obvious.

When it comes to following a guy who claimed that Buddhism is by nature "socialist" but then pejoratively using the term "social justice warrior" to harass people one disagrees with, that becomes a bit more interesting.
The posts in this thread of course.

I see, you must be talking about something from another thread, something unrelated which I am obviously not aware of.
sentinel
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by sentinel »

SkillfulA wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am

“And which is the faculty of mindfulness? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, is mindful, endowed with excellent proficiency in mindfulness, remembering & recollecting what was done and said a long time ago. He remains focused on the body in & of itself—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves… the mind in & of itself… dhammas in & of themselves—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called the faculty of mindfulness.” — SN 48:10
Do you mind explain the difference between sati ,
sati indriya and sati bala ?
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SkillfulA
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by SkillfulA »

James Tan wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:11 pm
SkillfulA wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:12 am

“And which is the faculty of mindfulness? There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, is mindful, endowed with excellent proficiency in mindfulness, remembering & recollecting what was done and said a long time ago. He remains focused on the body in & of itself—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves… the mind in & of itself… dhammas in & of themselves—ardent, alert, & mindful—subduing greed & distress with reference to the world. This is called the faculty of mindfulness.” — SN 48:10
Do you mind explain the difference between sati ,
sati indriya and sati bala ?
I am not aware of a difference, are you?
sentinel
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by sentinel »

:stirthepot:
:juggling:
:spy:
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Manopubbangama
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by Manopubbangama »

DooDoot wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:36 am
. I am not the one misguiding others to fruitless practise. The role of 'sati' is not 'observing'. The role of sati is the 'gatekeeper'
When you say that those who view sati as 'observing' or 'awareness' are practicing fruitlessly, what do you mean by that exactly?
auto
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by auto »

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/pli/ms
Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;
if you translate pretty much word to word

yasmin samaye- when in religious order.

digham- it is long, long as waiting bus long, not as long breath like taking time like 10 seconds long
rassam- short, but as poor and like dictonary says: stunted.
sabbakayapatisamvedi - is the opposition in body
sikkhati
basically your body gets accustomed to these qualities
‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;
getting used to( accustomed) to that calmed down kayasankhara.

the point is, even if its wrong but what matters is the idea and that is differentthan this translation conveys

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato
Whenever a mendicant knows that they breathe heavily, or lightly, or experiencing the whole body, or stilling the body’s motion
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Sam Vara
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by Sam Vara »

auto wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:14 pm https://suttacentral.net/mn118/pli/ms
Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;
if you translate pretty much word to word

yasmin samaye- when in religious order.
Are you sure? This seems to be "On the occasions that", rather than anything to do with religious orders. Samayo is "time" or "occasion".
auto
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by auto »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:28 pm
auto wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:14 pm https://suttacentral.net/mn118/pli/ms
Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;
if you translate pretty much word to word

yasmin samaye- when in religious order.
Are you sure? This seems to be "On the occasions that", rather than anything to do with religious orders. Samayo is "time" or "occasion".
religious order is same as to embody vidya.
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Sam Vara
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by Sam Vara »

auto wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:05 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:28 pm
auto wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:14 pm https://suttacentral.net/mn118/pli/ms



if you translate pretty much word to word

yasmin samaye- when in religious order.
Are you sure? This seems to be "On the occasions that", rather than anything to do with religious orders. Samayo is "time" or "occasion".
religious order is same as to embody vidya.
Yes, but that's not the quote. I'm lost!
auto
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by auto »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:51 pm
auto wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:05 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:28 pm

Are you sure? This seems to be "On the occasions that", rather than anything to do with religious orders. Samayo is "time" or "occasion".
religious order is same as to embody vidya.
Yes, but that's not the quote. I'm lost!
time as "its time for dinner". Otherwise you need lend or depend on the meaning from what is written next, this way you make sentences shorter(in meanings) every time you explain past explanation.
In short, just by hearing "yasmin samaye" would be enough to know the entire passage what it is about.
Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti; ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati; ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati;
then next part of quote is when the meaning of past quote is as ground or base. So if you know this quote you could know a method to retrieve the past quote.
kāye kāyānupassī, bhikkhave, tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ. Kāyesu kāyaññatarāhaṃ, bhikkhave, evaṃ vadāmi yadidaṃ—assāsapassāsā.
next part also same logic
Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, kāye kāyānupassī tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ.
1st quote starts with Yasmin samaye
2nd have kaye kayanupassi and Yasmin samaye as second
3rd has what was third at 2nd part will be first in this part and 1st part as 3rd

that done there is next tab start again with Yasmin Samaye but it doesn't matter since you start with the first one and know what happen when on 2nd start.

I doubt that someone just memorized it all thousands of Suttas or were remembered blatantly without any key to retrieve lost parts.
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DooDoot
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by DooDoot »

SkillfulA wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:42 pmOf course, at least some of the terms found in the paticasamuppada appear or are referred to in each and every single teaching. "With this there is this" etc happens constantly here and now but being aware of it or paying attention to it is another topic.
I was not referring to the generalisations above. I was referring to the 'kaya sankhara' ('the breathing'). I was referring to how in kayanupassana it can be discerned the effect of ignorance upon the kaya sankara. I was saying there is no need to wait until dhammanupassana to examine paticasamuppada
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Re: How to practise sati ?

Post by pegembara »

auto wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:15 pm
i am aware of that i am doing the breathing, its on Suttas.

https://suttacentral.net/mn118/en/sujato
Being aware of the breath is not the same as thinking 'I am' breathing which is the only the initial instruction according to MN118.
When breathing in heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing in heavily.’ When breathing out heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing out heavily.’ When breathing in lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing in lightly.’ When breathing out lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing out lightly.’
The next part says experiencing or being aware or merely observing the breath.
They practice breathing in experiencing the whole body. They practice breathing out experiencing the whole body.
They practice breathing in observing impermanence. They practice breathing out observing impermanence. They practice breathing in observing fading away. They practice breathing out observing fading away. They practice breathing in observing cessation. They practice breathing out observing cessation. They practice breathing in observing letting go. They practice breathing out observing letting go
You asked and answered-
so what in your opinion lies on the otherside of the Unbinding?

it is you.
That is not what the teaching of anatta is about.

viewtopic.php?t=16264
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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