Can we practice Anapanasati only in sitting (cross leg) position?

[SarathW]

Can we practice Anapanasati only in sitting (cross leg) position?

From another discussion:

Obviously it is limited to the in an out breath in Anapanasati. When a meditator is sitting cross-legged with back erect, obviously they cannot engage in any unwholesome bodily actions (such occurs in those kamma suttas where kaya sankhara is used to described bodily kamma).

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I have to disagree to the point that Anapanasati is practiced only in sitting position.
I think Anapanasati can be practice in sitting, standing, walking and sleeping positions.
Any comments?

[Sam Vara]

I have to disagree to the point that Anapanasati is practiced only in sitting position.
I think Anapanasati can be practice in sitting, standing, walking and sleeping positions.
Any comments?

I think the answer to this will depend upon what we mean by anapanasati. If we mean just keeping the mind on the breath while we are in different positions or doing tasks, then yes, that is possible for most people. Some meditators claim to get good results while sitting in a chair or standing; and I have, under instruction, been able to remain aware of the breath while carrying out simple tasks. My teacher got me to mow the lawn and do gardening at the vihara while remaining aware of the length of the breath. It was hard for me, but possible. He also asked me to try the same when cycling home, and in this I had less success.

That's very different, however, from working through all the tetrads of the Anapanasati Sutta. That would definitely be beyond me, but who knows what more accomplished practitioners can achieve?

[SarathW]

Before doing any task we all take a breath first.
Then we hold the breath and do the task.
When we finish the task we exhale.
What we have to do is mindful of that breath.

[Volo]

The object of ānāpānasati is natural breath. If the breath is natural (i.e. there is no intentional or unintentional control) it's okay to practice ānāpānasati. According to my experience walking/moving is the most challenging, because it is more difficult to leave the breath as it is, than in sitting, standing or lying down postures.

[Sam Vara]

The object of ānāpānasati is natural breath. If the breath is natural (i.e. there is no intentional or unintentional control) it's okay to practice ānāpānasati.

At the risk of opening up another discussion, is that definitely the case? I was taught a meditation technique which involves (in part) controlling the length of the breath, and that length of breath was the object of awareness while carrying out tasks. That doesn't appear to contradict the description given in MN 118.

[Volo]

At the risk of opening up another discussion, is that definitely the case? I was taught a meditation technique which involves (in part) controlling the length of the breath, and that length of breath was the object of awareness while carrying out tasks. That doesn't appear to contradict the description given in MN 118.

I remember reading it in some book of Pa-Auk Sayadaw (the object is either natural breath or nimitta, to be more precise), and it perfectly corresponds to my experience. I think many Theravada teachers (e.g. Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Thanissaro) would also agree that breath should be natural. Intentional control might be useful, but I would say it is a different meditation - closer to hindu/yogic pranayama. But the biggest problem (at least for me) was unintentional control - when you don't want to control, but cannot stop controlling it.

[Spiny Norman]

I have to disagree to the point that Anapanasati is practiced only in sitting position.
I think Anapanasati can be practice in sitting, standing, walking and sleeping positions.
Any comments?

Clearly it is easier to pay attention to the sensations of breathing if one is not having to move around. So stationary postures would be better.

You can combine walking meditation with breathing meditation, but then attention is split.

[Sam Vara]

At the risk of opening up another discussion, is that definitely the case? I was taught a meditation technique which involves (in part) controlling the length of the breath, and that length of breath was the object of awareness while carrying out tasks. That doesn't appear to contradict the description given in MN 118.

I remember reading it in some book of Pa-Auk Sayadaw (the object is either natural breath or nimitta, to be more precise), and it perfectly corresponds to my experience. I think many Theravada teachers (e.g. Ajahn Brahm, Ajahn Thanissaro) would also agree that breath should be natural. Intentional control might be useful, but I would say it is a different meditation - closer to hindu/yogic pranayama. But the biggest problem (at least for me) was unintentional control - when you don't want to control, but cannot stop controlling it.

Yes, I spent many years following instructions that we should not attempt to control the length of the breath, but was introduced to a technique which does, and for me it worked better. It's certainly a minority thing, but I can't see any evidence in the suttas that we should not do it, or that it is more akin to another technique than to what the Buddha actually taught. The actual instructions for meditation in the suttas are sparse and seem to relate more to outcome than technique, so I'm happy to do what actually works.

I agree with your bit about unintentional control; that's a tough one.

Thanissaro, though - doesn't he sometimes get criticised for "interfering" with the breath, controlling the length and forcefulness of the breathing, and relating it to bodily energies, etc?

[mikenz66]

Thanissaro, though - doesn't he sometimes get criticised for "interfering" with the breath, controlling the length and forcefulness of the breathing, and relating it to bodily energies, etc?

Yes, that's one of Ven Thanissaro's major points of difference. He advocates consciously finding the most comfortable way of breathing, and relating it to energies, and so on.

Such manipulation doesn't seem to contradict anything in the suttas, however. And, in the end, meditation is about manipulation into a different state ("the path", "jhana", etc "are fabricated"), even if that manipulation is expressed as "just letting go...."


Mike

[Volo]

Yes, I spent many years following instructions that we should not attempt to control the length of the breath, but was introduced to a technique which does, and for me it worked better.

Yes, I've heard from some people, that they had better results with some control. It might be a preliminary trick, but I think eventually it should be given up.

It's certainly a minority thing, but I can't see any evidence in the suttas that we should not do it, or that it is more akin to another technique than to what the Buddha actually taught.

It might be, it is not easy to say solely on the sutta (I meant it was my feeling, that it is more close to pranayama, than to ānāpānasati).

Thanissaro, though - doesn't he sometimes get criticised for "interfering" with the breath, controlling the length and forcefulness of the breathing, and relating it to bodily energies, etc?

Yes, now I recollect that Ajahn Lee recommend somewhere to try long or short breath and see which is more comfortable. Okay, then Ven. Thanissaro is out of the list of natural breath supporters...

[Sam Vara]

Yes, I spent many years following instructions that we should not attempt to control the length of the breath, but was introduced to a technique which does, and for me it worked better.

Yes, I've heard from some people, that they had better results with some control. It might be a preliminary trick, but I think eventually it should be given up.

Maybe. As someone doing something which often excites comment that I am doing something wrong or substandard, I'm interested in the status of such claims. Most of it seems to boil down to personal preference and assumptions that they way they were taught is the only valid way. I've never seen anything in the suttas which demonstrates that it is not equally valid. If I knew of a better way, I'd take it with gratitude!

[Volo]

Returning back to the topic,

Another way to walking meditation is to use a mantra like Buddho. This technique of practice is like the sitting meditation as mentioned earlier. The practitioner mentally repeats Buddho with the breath while walking. Be mindful on the breaths as you repeat the mantra, Buddho, all the time. This technique will help calm the mind. However, it is not suitable for beginners because the breath is a subtle meditation subject. Walking meditation combined with the breath with the word ‘Buddho’ is fit for one who has attained a certain degree of stability and calmness beforehand.

Ajahn Mun, Walking meditation.

[bodom]

What can we do so that the mind doesn’t get distracted with its preoccupations or its nonsensical mental fabrications? We have to give the mind something to focus its awareness on, for if its awareness isn’t focused on one thing, it wanders around to know other things, other matters, aside from itself. This is why there’s the practice of focusing our awareness on the body, or on the breath, making the breath the post to which we tie our monkey—the mind. In other words, we use mindfulness to keep the mind focused on the breath. This is the first step in the practice.

Training the mind to stay focused on the breath is something we have to do continuously, with each in-and-out breath, in every posture—sitting, standing, walking, lying down. No matter what you’re doing, stay focused on the breath. If you want, you can simply stay focused on nothing more than the sensation of the breath, without determining whether it’s long or short. Keep breathing normally. Don’t force the breath or hold the breath or sit with your body too tense. Sit straight and face comfortably straight ahead. If you’re going to turn to the left, make sure to be focused on the breath as you turn. If you turn to the right, stay focused on the breath as you turn.

Whatever posture you use is up to you, but stay focused on the breath continuously. If your attention lapses, bring it back to knowing the breath again. Whatever you’re doing at any time, watch the breath with every in-and-out breath and you’ll be developing mindfulness and alertness—full-body self-awareness—at the same time you’re being aware of the breath.

When you walk, you don’t have to focus on the steps of the feet. Focus on the breath and let the feet do the stepping on their own. Let each part of the body perform its function on its own. All you have to do is stay focused on the breath and you’ll have full-body awareness.

Whether the eye is looking at sights or the ear is listening to sounds, stay focused on the breath. When you look at a sight, make sure that knowing the breath underlies the looking. When you listen to a sound, make sure that knowing the breath underlies the listening. The breath is a means for making the mind quiet, so you first have to train yourself with it. Don’t be in a hurry to get higher results. Train the mind to stay under the control of mindfulness continuously for days on end—to the point where the mind can’t let its attention lapse. It will come to stay more and more with the breath, focused on knowing the breath continuously, and then other things will stop on their own: Thinking stops, speaking stops. Whatever tasks you have to do, you can still do them while at the same time keeping track of the breath each and every moment. If there are any lapses, you come back to knowing the breath again. There’s nothing else you have to think about. Be aware of the breath at the same time you’re aware of the normalcy of the mind.

When you stay focused on the breath in every posture, it’s a means of blocking the mind from traipsing around with its thoughts and labels. You have to be intent on training the mind to stay with the breath with every posture: That’s how you’ll come to know what the mind is like when it has mindfulness of breathing as its dwelling place.

- Upasika Kee Nanayon

www.dhammatalks.org/books/UnentangledKn ... n0010.html

[bodom]

The third step is to remember that even though you open your eyes, you can still be aware of the breath energy in the body, as you get up, walk around, whatever you do: Try to stay as fully aware of this breath energy as continually as you can. It may be asking too much to try to focus on the in-breath and the out-breath all the time, but just try to be aware of the quality of the breath energy in the body, and release any patterns of tension that you may detect, as soon as they arise, in the course of the day. This way you provide yourself with a good foundation for observing your mind as you go through the day. It also provides you with a sense of being grounded in your daily activities. This helps build up the momentum of your practice.

See if you can maintain this full body awareness until the next time that you sit down to meditate. That way, the next time you sit down to focus on the breath, you’ll be right there.

It’s like keeping a dog on a short leash. When you want it to come, it’s right there. Otherwise, if you drop your awareness of the breath energy, it’s like keeping your dog on a very long leash. It will wrap the leash around other people’s legs, lampposts, trees—all kinds of things. When you want it to come back, you’ll have to unwind the leash, which takes a very long time. So try to maintain this awareness of the breath energy as part of your whole day.

- Thanissaro Bhikkhu

https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/Karma ... l_toc_id_1

[justindesilva]

Ana pana sati bhavana means keeping the mind concentrated only on the inhalation and exhalation.
The slightest movement of the body ( any part) can create a kamaccanda or a desire for sensual pleasure.
The only posture to keep the body without movement is the lotus position or padmasana. This is why the cross legged padmasana posture is ideal for anpana sati bhavana.
Further the padmasana ensures that no weight on any limb is holding while on padmasana and hence breathing is independently activated .