Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

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archaic
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Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by archaic »

What is right desire? Of course all desire is suffering, but may not some desires lead to the end of desire?
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Bundokji
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by Bundokji »

Some desires are wholesome from a Buddhist perspective such as the desire to be good, or the desire for wisdom. So, not all desires are suffering. What is suffering though is clinging to desire even if this desire is wholesome.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
SarathW
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by SarathW »

If that's so, Master Ananda, then it's an endless path, and not one with an end, for it's impossible that one could abandon desire by means of desire."

"In that case, brahman, let me question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think: Didn't you first have desire, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular desire allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

"Didn't you first have persistence, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular persistence allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

"Didn't you first have the intent, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular intent allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

"Didn't you first have [an act of] discrimination, thinking, 'I'll go to the park,' and then when you reached the park, wasn't that particular act of discrimination allayed?"

"Yes, sir."

"So it is with an arahant whose mental effluents are ended, who has reached fulfillment, done the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, totally destroyed the fetter of becoming, and who is released through right gnosis. Whatever desire he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular desire is allayed. Whatever persistence he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular persistence is allayed. Whatever intent he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular intent is allayed. Whatever discrimination he first had for the attainment of arahantship, on attaining arahantship that particular discrimination is allayed. So what do you think, brahman? Is this an endless path, or one with an end?"
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
JohnK
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by JohnK »

Chanda, see #3:
Chanda: intention, desire, will.

1. As an ethically neutral psychological term, in the sense of 'intention', it is one of those general mental properties cetasika Tab. II taught in the Abhidhamma, the moral quality of which is determined by the character of the intention cetanā associated therewith. The Com. explains it as 'a wish to do' kattu-kamyatā-chanda If intensified, it acts also as a 'predominance condition' see: paccaya 3.

2. As an evil quality it has the meaning of 'desire', and is frequently coupled with terms for 'sensuality', 'greed', etc., for instance:kāma-cchanda, sense-desire', one of the 5 hindrances see: nīvarana chanda-rāga 'lustful desire' see: kāma It is one of the 4 wrong paths see: agati.

3. As a good quality it is a righteous will or alertness dhamma-chanda and occurs, e.g. in the formula of the 4 right efforts see: padhāna The Bhikkhu rouses his will chandam janeti...; If intensified, it is one of the 4 roads to power see: iddhipāda
From https://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bu ... dic3_c.htm Nyanatiloka Dictionary
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

archaic wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:11 pm What is right desire?
There is no Right Desire. If there is any desire, that automatically prevents you from realising nibanna.

There is Right Intention however. It's one of the 8-fold-path. It's sort of similar. You can think "I intend to give up the dusty life and become enlightened". And that's healthy.
JohnK mentioned this in the post above.
SarathW
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by SarathW »

There is right effort. (Samma Vayama)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
JohnK
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by JohnK »

I happen to be reading (just the powerful Introduction at this point) Thanissaro Bhikkhu's The Wings to Awakening -- these "wings" are the 37 mental qualities (drawn from the lists shown in the quote below) that lead to Awakening. Desire (chanda) is one of these 37, being one of the "four bases of spiritual power" (Iddhipada). See Iddhipadasamyutta (SM 51).
Here is the MN sutta quote that opens the Wings book:
So this is what you think of me: “The Blessed One,
sympathetic, seeking our well-being, teaches the Dhamma out
of sympathy.” Then you should train yourselves—
harmoniously, cordially, and without dispute—in the
qualities I have pointed out, having known them directly: the
four frames of reference, the four right exertions, the four
bases of power, the five faculties, the five strengths, the seven
factors for Awakening, the noble eightfold path.
—MN 103
So, as has been said, there is no formally designated Right (capital R) Desire, the suttas include a type of skillful desire, desire for awakening, w/o which there would be no effort (that's my understanding at the moment anyway).
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
JohnK
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by JohnK »

A bit more from Wings on desire as a base of spiritual power (with some emphasis added):
Many popular Western writings criticize the four qualities listed in the
bases of power—desire, persistence (effort), intent (will), and discrimination
(the discriminating mind)—as enemies of proper meditation, both in that
they interfere with the calming of the mind and are antithetical to the goal
of the Unfabricated, which lies beyond desire, effort, and the categories of
discrimination. The first part of the extended formula deals with the first of
these criticisms.

"There is the case where a monk develops the base of power
endowed with concentration founded on desire & the fabrications
of exertion, thinking, ‘This desire of mine will be neither overly
sluggish nor overly active, neither inwardly constricted nor
outwardly scattered.’"[Similarly with concentration founded on
persistence, intent, and discrimination.]

This passage shows that the problem lies, not in the desire, effort,
intent, or discrimination, but in the fact that these qualities can be
unskillfully applied or improperly tuned to their task.
If they were absent,
the practice—if it could be called a practice—would stagnate from loss of
direction or motivation. If they ran wild, they would interfere with mindful
concentration. So the trick is not to deny them but to tune them skillfully so
that they will help focus the mind on the present moment.
Thus, for
instance, in the practice of meditation, as with any skill, it is important not
to focus desire too strongly on the results one hopes to get, for that would
interfere with the mind’s ability to focus on giving rise to the causes leading
to those results. If, instead, one focuses desire on putting the causes in
proper order in the present moment, desire becomes an indispensable part
of the process of mastery
.
Passage §67 deals with the second criticism—that desire, etc., are
antithetical to the goal—by showing that these qualities are necessary for
anyone who pursues a path, but are automatically abandoned on reaching
the goal a
t the path’s end. The image of the path is important here, for it
carries important implications. First, the path is not the goal; it is simply the
way there, just as the road to the Grand Canyon should not be confused
with the Grand Canyon itself.
Even though many stretches of the road bear
no resemblance to the Grand Canyon
, that does not mean that the road
does not lead there. Secondly, the path of practice does not cause the goal,
it simply leads there, just as neither the road to the Grand Canyon nor the
act of walking to the Grand Canyon can cause the Grand Canyon to be
. The
goal at the end of the Buddhist path is unfabricated, so no amount of desire
or effort can bring it into being. Nevertheless, the path to the goal is a
fabricated process, and in that process desire, effort, intent, and
discrimination all have an important role to play, just as the effort of
walking plays a role in arriving at the Grand Canyon.
Those who grasp at perceptions & views wander the internet creating friction. [based on Sn4:9,v.847]
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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by JamesTheGiant »

JohnK wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:41 pm A bit more from Wings on desire as a base of spiritual power (with some emphasis added):
Good find John. :twothumbsup: :anjali:
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salayatananirodha
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Re: Is there such a thing as Right Desire?

Post by salayatananirodha »

yes, take a look https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
ajahn chah also spoke along these lines, comparing the desire to practice to the shell of a coconut, which you need in order to enjoy the fruit
I host a sutta discussion via Zoom Sundays at 11AM Chicago time — message me if you are interested
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