Body Scan

[JamesTheGiant]

This refers to feelings not sensations.

Vedana is sometimes translated as Sensation, sometimes as Feeling.
It does not mean emotional feelings like happiness, embarrassment, sadness, etc .

Bhikkhu Bodhi writes:

"The Pali word vedanā does not signify emotion (which appears to be a complex phenomenon involving a variety of concomitant mental factors), but the bare affective quality of an experience, which may be either pleasant, painful or neutral.

[Spiny Norman]

The Goenka body scan involves not just noticing the body, but noticing sensations.

What else is there to notice but bodily sensations? Bodily posture is the only other aspect I can think of.

[Polar Bear]

This refers to feelings not sensations.

Vedana is sometimes translated as Sensation, sometimes as Feeling.
It does not mean emotional feelings like happiness, embarrassment, sadness, etc .

Bhikkhu Bodhi writes:

"The Pali word vedanā does not signify emotion (which appears to be a complex phenomenon involving a variety of concomitant mental factors), but the bare affective quality of an experience, which may be either pleasant, painful or neutral.

Yes, but sensations are generally considered to be specifically located bodily feelings whereas my understanding is that Vedanā is the affective tone of any experience. Vedanā also occurs at the mind door which would seem to preclude Vedanā being understood the way it is in the Goenka system. It seems that Vedanā is rather simply an umbrella term covering the reality that any experience is either pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral. The misunderstanding that the Goenka tradition seems to have regarding the meaning of this term does not necessarily negate the Goenka techniques usefulness however; although it may to the extent that it hinders a proper understanding of the scope and purpose of recognizing vedanā in its various manifestations, bodily or mental.

A sensation in the knee may be have unpleasant vedanā but the sensation itself is not the vedanā. Likewise an emotion such as happiness has a pleasant vedanā but is not the vedanā itself, rather it has as a characteristic- ‘pleasant’.

I’m not entirely sure about this understanding though. The suttas are not entirely clear about how the term vedanā applies or refers.

What we can say for sure from the suttas is that vedanā is pleasant, unpleasant, or neither pleasant nor unpleasant, that it occurs at all six sense bases, and that it can be characterized as worldly/carnal and unworldly/non-carnal.

[JamesTheGiant]

’.

I’m not entirely sure about this understanding though. The suttas are not entirely clear about how the term vedanā applies or refers.

Yes, you're right, there are various understandings of Vedana. The one you prefer I think was clarified in the abhidamma, to do with feeling-tone. If you look up the word it gives several alternate translations.

[Polar Bear]

’.

I’m not entirely sure about this understanding though. The suttas are not entirely clear about how the term vedanā applies or refers.

Yes, you're right, there are various understandings of Vedana. The one you prefer I think was clarified in the abhidamma, to do with feeling-tone. If you look up the word it gives several alternate translations.

Is the Goenka understanding of vedanā consistent with the fact that in the suttas vedanā occurs in all six sense spheres (i.e. including the mind) and that in the Satipatthana sutta vedanā can be considered to be either sāmisa or nirāmisa?

Sāmisa (adj.) [sa+āmisa] 1. holding food Vin ii.214= iv.198. -- 2. fleshly, carnal D ii.298=M i.59; A i.81; Ps ii.41. Opp. to nirāmisa spiritual (e. g. Ps i.59).

Nirāmisa (adj.) [nis+āmisa] having no meat or prey; free from sensual desires, disinterested, not material

[JamesTheGiant]

What else is there to notice but bodily sensations? Bodily posture is the only other aspect I can think of.

There are four contemplations mentioned in the mahasatipatthana sutta, after the preliminaries:
Contemplation of...

1) Bodily posture, basic physical actions.

2) Sensations, or maybe " feeling tone".

3) Mental contents, (thoughts, emotions, etc)

4) And finally "Dhammas", which in this sutta means the three characteristics of existence, Anicca, Anatta, Dukkha.

The four are presented in order of difficulty, or abstractness kinda.

[JamesTheGiant]

Is the Goenka understanding of vedanā consistent with the fact that in the suttas vedanā occurs in all six sense spheres (i.e. including the mind) and that in the Satipatthana sutta vedanā can be considered to be either sāmisa or nirāmisa?

Goenkaji stays quite practical in his teaching, and doesn't get into things like that as far as I remember. He just repeats again and again to stay equanimous to everything that happens, whether carnal and fleshy and gross, or light and spiritual and not material.

Maybe on the 20 day or 30 day retreats he could outline the subtleties, but I've never done one of the longer retreats in that tradition.
He's definitely not a scholar, just a very gifted practical meditation teacher.

[thepea]

The body scan technique as taught in the 10 day course is a starting point to how to use this technique. When mind is not sharp you will work on the surface, breath touching nostril, atmospheric temperature experienced on parts of body, itching, pain. As mind sharpens you are able to penetrate body, within a mass of pain you may feel this broken into different sensations, stretching, heat, pulsing, pressure, tingles, etc..
But at other parts it might just be pain, focusing on subtlest sensation experienced as is done with anapana, you develop in jhana, the mind sharpens further.
Within subtler sensations another breakdown of sensations becomes available to observe, going deeper into jhana, one can pierce into the spinal chord. This unlocks another depth of subtlety’s. At any of this time the meditator may be experiencing a different range of experience on different parts of body.
One way to penetrate deep is to gradually move awareness throughout entire body in a slow methodical way, another is to stop somewhere and focus or pinpoint on a sensation and penetrate it to unlock deeper subtleties.
Sometimes this just happens sometimes it does not. The point is that you are breaking the mental habit of grasping and cravingvwith the Buddha’s practice, if mind desires to be concentrated and remain with subtle experience then you suffer when you experience gross levels of sensation.
If meditator works as the Buddha teaches then you use whatever comes into you field of experience, with the wisdom that this is impermanent, it is not me, and that it is suffering.
All 4 aspects are being experienced as you use this anapana/ body scanning practice if done without falling into the trap of craving and aversion. But everyone does fall into this trap as we move through different experience, we like some we dislike others, we are bored of some, we fear others. This is the habit to break out of bit by bit. That’s it nothing more, people want more information about jhanas and nibbana in longer courses but it is all the same just sitting alone in a box or closet for longer time, observing how completely addicted you are to this craving and aversion and coming to the conclusion that you are not alone, that everyone is suffering from this crazy habit. Then your kindness and compassion grows within, with this wisdom that you are not the only box sitting crazy suffering human being, and you smile for a brief moment and are happy.

[khora]

I practice in a different U Ba Khin lineage.

And, after my last retreat, my hypothesis is that the body scan was developed, actually, by Saya Thet Gyi.

It seems that the instructions with which he was sent home by Ledi Sayadaw were "focus on sensations on the top of your head" -- and, according to biographical accounts, he gradually expanded the area of focus to cover the whole body. And when becoming aware of the subtle changing of the sensations, he checked his experience with Ledi Sayadaw texts -- and, when coming back to Ledi Sayadaw, he was encouraged to teach the technique -- including to Ledi Sayadaw's monks.

When asked by one student whether the order in which we scan the body for sensations has a particular significance, our instructor said something along the lines "No, after experiments U Ba Khin and his teacher developed this order -- starting with the top of the head and going towards the soles of the feet -- as the one that develops awareness of anicca as quickly as possible in beginners. And it seems a rather logical order".

So, based on this, it seems the most reasonable hypothesis is that "body scanning" is something Saya Thet "invented" and U Ba Khin developed in a more formal manner -- transmitting it to other people he encouraged / authorized to teach.

[sunnat]

As mentioned it's a very intensive technique. Prisoners in Donaldson Alabama, lifers, call 10 days Vipassana harder than doing time while recognising that to get out they have to go in. Inner freedom through insight.

Before starting Vipassana one should establish Sila and one pointed concentration, Samadhi, which is generally found to be easiest for most people using anapana sati. With that while practising intensively while observing noble silence Vipassana is given. It is potentially harmful to a new practitioner to attempt this without preparation or guidance. Come to know through direct experience.

The aim as Sayagyi U Ba Khin says in "the essentials of buddha dhamma in meditative practice" youtube is to 'activate anicca'.

As Goenkaji instructs in the last groupsits of his courses: remain aware and equanimous. Equanimity is developed by going in order part by part and giving no sensation any more importance than any other.

Atapi sampajano satima and be happy...

'Brethren, now behold, I exhort you, decay is inherent in all conditioned things, but the Truth will remain forever! Work out your salvation and liberation with earnestness and diligence.'

"Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These mental qualities are skillful; these mental qualities are blameless; these mental qualities are praised by the wise; these mental qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them."

— AN 3.65

[mikenz66]

I've never seen reference to it in the suttas, and - like the OP - I'm curious as to its origins.

Body scanning is mentioned in the Satipatthana Sutta, but not with reference to feelings, but body parts:

Furthermore, a mendicant examines their own body, up from the soles of the feet and down from the tips of the hairs, wrapped in skin and full of many kinds of filth. ‘In this body there is head hair, body hair, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, diaphragm, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, undigested food, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, saliva, snot, synovial fluid, urine.’
https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato#sc13

It's a rather obvious way to approach feelings too. The sutta says:

And how does a mendicant meditate observing an aspect of feelings? It’s when a mendicant who feels a pleasant feeling knows: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling.’
When they feel a painful feeling, they know: ‘I feel a painful feeling.’
When they feel a neutral feeling, they know: ‘I feel a neutral feeling.’
...
https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato#sc29

If one wants to follow those instructions, one can either wait for feelings to become noticeable somewhere, or examine the body for feelings, e.g. by scanning up and down, or examining particular areas of the body. With some approaches, such as Mahasi, etc, one waits for a feeling to arise, then examines it. The scanning approach actively looks for feelings to examine. Either seems perfectly consistent with:
"...when a mendicant who feels a pleasant feeling knows: ‘I feel a pleasant feeling.’"

Scanning the body to do some of these exercises seems so obvious that I find it hard to think of it as particularly innovative. If one wants to make use of suttas such as that, one needs to make quite a lot of decisions oneself about what order to do the exercises in, how long to do them, whether to concentrate on one of them at a time, whether to do all of them, and so on. You won't find that sort of guidance in any sutta.

Bhikkhu Analayo has a nice guided Satipatthana meditation that uses a lot of body scanning:
https://dharmaseed.org/teacher/439/talk/26718/
(and see the associated PDF).


Mike

[sentinel]

What else is there to notice but bodily sensations? Bodily posture is the only other aspect I can think of.

There are four contemplations mentioned in the mahasatipatthana sutta, after the preliminaries:
Contemplation of...

1) Bodily posture, basic physical actions.

2) Sensations, or maybe " feeling tone".

3) Mental contents, (thoughts, emotions, etc)

4) And finally "Dhammas", which in this sutta means the three characteristics of existence, Anicca, Anatta, Dukkha.

The four are presented in order of difficulty, or abstractness kinda.

It seems in the First sati foundation of mindfulness , body amongst the bodies does not confined to physical posture only .
Does the examination of the body parts equivalent to scanning of the body parts ?
I supposed not .

The dhamma does not refer to 3 characteristics .

Actually , the practice of four foundation of mindfulness correspond to the four nutriments .

Regards .

[JamesTheGiant]

The dhamma does not refer to 3 characteristics .

I went back and read it again, in two different translations... And you're right, the three characteristics are not mentioned. Aarg!
I wonder where I got that idea from.