Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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sentinel
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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DooDoot wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:23 am Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics because it uses Samma Sati (Right Mindfulness). Right Mindfulness remembers to keep Right View in the mind, which keeps the mind free from craving & attachment.
One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness.

MN 117
Agree, but partly . I would think there is more than that .
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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James Tan wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:26 amAgree, but partly . I would think there is more than that .
Whatever excuse to not practise non-clinging & non-thinking. Cling to breathing like clinging to a safety blanket; to place the breathing into a prison of clinging & grasping; like locking a bird in a cage.
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

Post by Spiny Norman »

James Tan wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:40 am Would you say mindfulness of breathing in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?
I suspect the main difference is the purpose of breath meditation.

See here for example: https://www.siddhayoga.org/2017/novembe ... ital-power
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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DooDoot wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:23 am Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics because it uses Samma Sati (Right Mindfulness).
How so, practically speaking? Anapanasati just means to be mindful of the breath.
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:34 am How so, practically speaking? Anapanasati just means to be mindful of the breath.
"Mindfulness" of the breath is not possible. How shocking to learn if 99% of Buddhists have it wrong if they have mistranslated the term "anapanasati" ! Oh the potential cognitive dissonance ! :shock:
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

Post by Spiny Norman »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:54 am
Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:34 am How so, practically speaking? Anapanasati just means to be mindful of the breath.
"Mindfulness" of the breath is not possible. How shocking to learn if 99% of Buddhists have it wrong when they mistranslate the term "anapanasati" ! Oh the potential cognitive dissonance ! :shock:
:shrug:

Sati = mindfulness, and anapana = breathing.

Practically speaking it involves paying attention to the bodily sensations of breathing.

:focus:
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:00 amSati = mindfulness, and anapana = breathing.
Yes. But the joiner "of" does not exist above.
Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:00 amPractically speaking it involves paying attention to the bodily sensations of breathing.
Sati is not paying attention to the bodily sensations of breathing. In the triad about sense organ, sense object and sense consciousness found in the suttas, the word "sati" does not exist because experiencing the breathing is not "sati".

The word for "sense contact" is "phassa"; just as the word for experiencing the breathing is "anupassi".
Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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DooDoot wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 am Sati is not paying attention to the bodily sensations of breathing.
It is exactly that according to the the first frame of the Satipatthana Sutta, and the first frame of the Anapanasati Sutta.

How would you know you are breathing in long, or short without paying attention? :shrug:

"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.'[2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.'[3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

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Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:06 amIt is exactly that according to the the first frame of the Satipatthana Sutta, and the first frame of the Anapanasati Sutta.
No, its not. You are imagining things that do not exist in the sutta.
Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:06 amHow would you know you are breathing in long, or short without paying attention? :shrug:
Irrelevant question. The word "sati" does not mean "paying attention". This idea appears to have no support in the Pali language.

Note: On a very crude level of practise, "sati" might mean "to remember" to pay attention but it does not mean "paying attention". "Sati" is that function of mind that remembers to not get distracted or remembers to not be forgetful. It is completely different or divorced from the function of mind that experiences an object. Its like holding a torch to shine light in a certain direction onto an object. Sati holds the torch in the right place but sati is not the light that shines on the object.
Dinsdale wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:06 am"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.'[2] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.'[3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'
Irrelevant quote. The word "sati" is not found anywhere in the above quote.

:strawman: :jedi: :popcorn:
When breathing in heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing in heavily.’ When breathing out heavily they know: ‘I’m breathing out heavily.’
Dīghaṃ vā assasanto ‘dīghaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, dīghaṃ vā passasanto ‘dīghaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti,

When breathing in lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing in lightly.’ When breathing out lightly they know: ‘I’m breathing out lightly.’
rassaṃ vā assasanto ‘rassaṃ assasāmī’ti pajānāti, rassaṃ vā passasanto ‘rassaṃ passasāmī’ti pajānāti.

They practice breathing in experiencing the whole body. They practice breathing out experiencing the whole body.
‘Sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘sabbakāyapaṭisaṃvedī passasissāmī’ti sikkhati.

They practice breathing in stilling the body’s motion. They practice breathing out stilling the body’s motion.
‘Passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

Post by sentinel »

DooDoot wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:19 am
James Tan wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:26 amAgree, but partly . I would think there is more than that .
Whatever excuse to not practise non-clinging & non-thinking. Cling to breathing like clinging to a safety blanket; to place the breathing into a prison of clinging & grasping; like locking a bird in a cage.
Can you elaborate more ?
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Re: Ananapasati in Buddhism different from the other ascetics Ananapasati ?

Post by form »

Anapasati is the same for all- to reach fourth jhana or even the higher immaterial states. How to use that level of concentration is the difference.
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