alcohol

[Alīno]

when i used to drink alcohool in the past, i does it for dancing

Why can't you dance without consuming alcohol?
Not every dancer consume alcohol.

Now i do it without alcohol and iam very surprised and happy to be able of that, because I used to belief that my body is not enought relaxed to feel music without alcohool... but actually by more Dhamma practice body and mind become more light, free... And lightness and freedom are the quality that I needed to feel the rythm and let the body express the music by mouvement ^^
So now iam free from bad taste of this liquid, from bad feelings the next day, and many others sufferings

[dharmacorps]

You can't mindfully drink. You also can't keep sila and follow the first 4 precepts if you drink, or at least, you can't be mindful about it. How many reasonable, generally good people have done terrible things they would never otherwise do when drunk? Many I think.

[Alīno]

You can't mindfully drink. You also can't keep sila and follow the first 4 precepts if you drink, or at least, you can't be mindful about it. How many reasonable, generally good people have done terrible things they would never otherwise do when drunk? Many I think.

Iam 100% sure you can keep all 4 precepts perfectly while you are drunk)) Light is much more powerfull than darkness, the point is to keep your mind clear regardless alcohool bodily poisoning .
How many times I said to girls that I will not kiss her or refused to give my number etc because I had already a girlfriend, or because she have a boyfriend or even someone who loves her and I know it... So what saying about intentional killing, stealing or lying?

[DooDoot]

I have the opposite view ^^ I dont think that he can intentionaly kill some being, but i think that he can get drunk for sensual pleasures, till he's not free from them.

What is the basis of this view? Please explain your reasons? How can a stream-enterer have verified faith in the Dhamma (particularly seeing self-view is false and brings suffering) if they have the habitual desire for sense pleasures?

Also, since the suttas say a stream-enterer cannot be reborn in hell but also say a dancer can be reborn in hell, it seems unlikely a stream-enterer can dance and avoid hell:

When sentient beings are still not free of greed, and are still bound by greed, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more arousing things. When sentient beings are still not free of hate, and are still bound by hate, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more hateful things. When sentient beings are still not free of delusion, and are still bound by delusion, a dancer in a stage or festival presents them with even more delusory things. And so, being heedless and negligent themselves, they’ve encouraged others to be heedless and negligent. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the hell called ‘Laughter’. But if you have such a view: ‘Suppose a dancer entertains and amuses people on a stage or at a festival with truth and lies. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the company of laughing gods.’ This is your wrong view. An individual with wrong view is reborn in one of two places, I say: hell or the animal realm.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn42.2/en/sujato

Personaly, when i used to drink alcohool in the past, i does it for dancing

I think somewhere in the suttas the Buddha said dancing is for crazy people or "madmen". Even when I was mad enough to engage in sexual misconduct & have a girlfriend when i was young, i wasn't mad enough to dance with her. Since she enjoyed dancing, i would ask other guys to dance with her at parties.

Not for escape from some suffering, but to get more pleasure from music...

When I saw the harm of heedless sex, when i was a young man, i lost interest in sex. At the same time, as a result, I lost interest in music and drugs. I think these three things go together: "sex-drugs-rock-n-roll'. I can't imagine not being interested in sex but being interested in dancing.

[dharmacorps]

Iam 100% sure you can keep all 4 precepts perfectly while you are drunk)) Light is much more powerfull than darkness, the point is to keep your mind clear regardless alcohool bodily poisoning .
How many times I said to girls that I will not kiss her or refused to give my number etc because I had already a girlfriend, or because she have a boyfriend or even someone who loves her and I know it... So what saying about intentional killing, stealing or lying?

Sorry Nwad, I'd like to respond but I don't understand what you are saying.

[Alīno]

What is the basis of this view? Please explain your reasons?

My personal experience. If iam incapable of these things even drunk, so what saying about Sotapanna ?

Also, since the suttas say a stream-enterer cannot be reborn in hell but also say a dancer can be reborn in hell, it seems unlikely a stream-enterer can dance and avoid hell:

Iam not a dancer )) I like dancing, like you like coffee or tea, but it not makes you coffee addict.
If you want explanation, I like dancing because it's a meditation for me, when you let music move your body you see anatta very clearly. You see it as it is : not me, not mine, not myself ... Some kind of Tai Chi 2.0 ^^

I can't imagine not being interested in sex but being interested in dancing.

Because dancing meditation have taste of freedom, sex and relationship have no teste of freedom )
From my point of view sex is a very wild, animal, dirty, blinding activity, no need much more to be disenchanted from it. And no need sex to express your love to someone.

Sorry Nwad, I'd like to respond but I don't understand what you are saying.

Iam sorry to My english is not good enought..

[DooDoot]

I like dancing, like you like coffee or tea, but it not makes you coffee addict.

I don't drink nor like coffee; and generally only drink tea when others make it for me.

If you want explanation, I like dancing because it's a meditation for me, when you let music move your body you see anatta very clearly. You see it as it is : not me, not mine, not myself ... Some kind of Tai Chi 2.0 ^^

The suttas call dancing "heedless" and do not include it in the Path

And so, being heedless and negligent themselves, they’ve encouraged others to be heedless and negligent. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the hell called ‘Laughter’. But if you have such a view: ‘Suppose a dancer entertains and amuses people on a stage or at a festival with truth and lies. When their body breaks up, after death, they’re reborn in the company of laughing gods.’ This is your wrong view. An individual with wrong view is reborn in one of two places, I say: hell or the animal realm.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn42.2/en/sujato

Because dancing meditation have taste of freedom

Its a way to avoid disturbing emotions.

[justindesilva]

when i used to drink alcohool in the past, i does it for dancing

Why can't you dance without consuming alcohol?
Not every dancer consume alcohol.

Thankfully I never had any liquor all my life. Yesterday (21st) was my 76th birthday. If anybody says that one cannot socialise without liquor then I am an example that it is possible. I have had parties , danced and mixed up without consuming liquor. I enjoyed drinking parties
by watching the drunken modes of others.
I have also helped others to get out of addiction to liquor.

[robertk]

Thankfully I never had any liquor all my life. Yesterday (21st) was my 76th birthday. r.

Congratulations on both counts!

[SarathW]

when i used to drink alcohool in the past, i does it for dancing

Why can't you dance without consuming alcohol?
Not every dancer consume alcohol.

Thankfully I never had any liquor all my life. Yesterday (21st) was my 76th birthday. If anybody says that one cannot socialise without liquor then I am an example that it is possible. I have had parties , danced and mixed up without consuming liquor. I enjoyed drinking parties
by watching the drunken modes of others.
I have also helped others to get out of addiction to liquor.

Be lated Happy Birth Day!!