The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Manopubbangama
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by Manopubbangama » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:10 am

WorldTraveller wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:29 am
dhammapal wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:11 am
Gotama the Buddha attained parinibbāna c. 483BC. But Nibbāna isn't annihilation just the end of suffering. Nibbāna is Awakening, so that means the Buddha hasn't forgotten about us. He isn't a God that can answer prayers, but I believe he still remembers us and is aware of us.
“Ānanda, that to some among you the thought will come: 'Ended is the word of The Buddha, we have The Buddha no longer.' But it should not be so considered. For that which I have proclaimed and made known as the Dhamma-vinayathat shall be your Master when I am gone.”

Mahāparinibbāna Sutta
HE'S GONE buddy! He's gone! :tongue:

lol

I gotta pm you sometimes, you bring some decent humor to this particular world of views here. :popcorn:
Sabbe Sankhara Anicca - Sabbe Sankhara Dukkha - Sabbe Dhamma Anatta


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budo
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by budo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:06 pm

dhammapal wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:51 pm
The Buddha's death was the break-up of his body, but the body is not-self.
The mind is not self either.

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Manopubbangama
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by Manopubbangama » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:34 pm

budo wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:06 pm
dhammapal wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:51 pm
The Buddha's death was the break-up of his body, but the body is not-self.
The mind is not self either.
citta = dhamma

dhamma = anatta

sabbe dhamma anatta



Buddha bye.

Buddha gone.

We still have the Dhamma in this Shakyamuni sasanna, for how long, the way things are going? no clue. :console:

All the more reason to exert manly energy to reach nibanna every single day, as it were our last.



"It's not the earth property that makes the true Dhamma disappear. It's not the water property... the fire property... the wind property that makes the true Dhamma disappear.[2] It's worthless people who arise right here [within the Sangha] who make the true Dhamma disappear. The true Dhamma doesn't disappear the way a boat sinks all at once.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html


Think about this when you see people on this board or anywhere else spouting off about their favorite pet-political view as if it had anything to do with Buddhism at all.
Last edited by Manopubbangama on Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sabbe Sankhara Anicca - Sabbe Sankhara Dukkha - Sabbe Dhamma Anatta

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Zom
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by Zom » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:46 pm

Buddha is not a person and the Nibbana is not a place.
HE'S GONE buddy! He's gone!
Only selfish conceit wants to be remembered anyways.
This. 8-)


For those who likes Transcendent Buddha there is a nice Mahayana religion nearby 8-)

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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Just as... the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all
of the streams that flow into it. Precisely so Nibbæna is vast,
boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings that pass
thereunto.
But again further, the great ocean is all in blossom, as it were,
with the flowers of its waves, mighty, various, unnumbered.
Precisely so Nibbæna is all in blossom, as it were, with the
Flowers of Purity, Knowledge, and Deliverance, mighty,
various, unnumbered.

“Good, Reverend Nægasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!”
~ Miln 315-323

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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:57 pm

In employing such an abundance of graphic similes, the Venerable
Nægasena is following firmly in the footsteps of the Buddha, for throughout his
teaching career this was a device that he frequently used to convey a point and
help it to lodge firmly in the listener’s memory.
T H E
I S L A N D
An Anthology of the Buddha’s
Teachings on Nibbæna
Edited and with Commentary by
Ajahn Pasanno & Ajahn Amaro

auto
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by auto » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:11 pm

Zom wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:46 pm
Buddha is not a person and the Nibbana is not a place.
HE'S GONE buddy! He's gone!
Only selfish conceit wants to be remembered anyways.
This. 8-)


For those who likes Transcendent Buddha there is a nice Mahayana religion nearby 8-)
Buddha said he is not a human, while being alive having a human body.

https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html
Then the Blessed One, leaving the road, went to sit at the root of a certain tree — his legs crossed, his body erect, with mindfulness established to the fore. Then Dona, following the Blessed One's footprints, saw him sitting at the root of the tree: confident, inspiring confidence, his senses calmed, his mind calmed, having attained the utmost control & tranquility, tamed, guarded, his senses restrained, a naga.[1] On seeing him, he went to him and said, "Master, are you a deva?"[2]

"No, brahman, I am not a deva."
"Are you a gandhabba?"
"No..."
"... a yakkha?"
"No..."
"... a human being?"
"No, brahman, I am not a human being."
"When asked, 'Are you a deva?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a deva.' When asked, 'Are you a gandhabba?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a gandhabba.' When asked, 'Are you a yakkha?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a yakkha.' When asked, 'Are you a human being?' you answer, 'No, brahman, I am not a human being.' Then what sort of being are you?"
"Brahman, the fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a deva: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. The fermentations by which — if they were not abandoned — I would be a gandhabba... a yakkha... a human being: Those are abandoned by me, their root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising.
How is that possible, what are the mechanics for this? having human body but not being a human?

And Suttas write about break up of the body. So what conclusion you make of it, obviously there is future exitence, but for Buddha the fermentations what would make you to be a deva or yakka or human are abandoned so no future arising for these.
Last edited by auto on Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zom
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by Zom » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:16 pm

Buddha said he is not a human, while being alive having a human body.
Depends on translation. Ven. Bodhi puts it this way:

(1) “Could you be a deva, sir?”696
“I will not be a deva, brahmin.”
(2) “Could you be a gandhabba, sir?”697
“I will not be a gandhabba, brahmin.”
(3) “Could you be a yakkha, sir?”
“I will not be a yakkha, brahmin.”
(4) “Could you be a human being, sir?”
“I will not be a human being, brahmin.”

I find his variant more reliable than "famous eternalist's " one .)

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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:19 pm

Eternal ism is about unchanging consciousness.

The emphasis is on unchanging.


Annihilation ism is about destroying consciousness.

The emphasis is on destruction.


Nirvana is about everlasting deliverance.

Everlasting …

auto
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by auto » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Zom wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:16 pm
Buddha said he is not a human, while being alive having a human body.
Depends on translation. Ven. Bodhi puts it this way:

(1) “Could you be a deva, sir?”696
“I will not be a deva, brahmin.”
(2) “Could you be a gandhabba, sir?”697
“I will not be a gandhabba, brahmin.”
(3) “Could you be a yakkha, sir?”
“I will not be a yakkha, brahmin.”
(4) “Could you be a human being, sir?”
“I will not be a human being, brahmin.”

I find his variant more reliable than "famous eternalist's " one .)
there are lots of eternalists, prolly you are one of them,

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Another time I approached Pakudha Kaccayana and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him.
..
"When this was said, Pakudha Kaccayana said to me, 'Great king, there are these seven substances — unmade, irreducible, uncreated, without a creator, barren, stable as a mountain-peak, standing firm like a pillar — that do not alter, do not change, do not interfere with one another, are incapable of causing one another pleasure, pain, or both pleasure and pain. Which seven? The earth-substance, the liquid-substance, the fire-substance, the wind-substance, pleasure, pain, and the soul as the seventh. These are the seven substances — unmade, irreducible, uncreated, without a creator, barren, stable as a mountain-peak, standing firm like a pillar — that do not alter, do not change, do not interfere with one another, and are incapable of causing one another pleasure, pain, or both pleasure and pain.

"'And among them there is no killer nor one who causes killing, no hearer nor one who causes hearing, no cognizer nor one who causes cognition. When one cuts off [another person's] head, there is no one taking anyone's life. It is simply between the seven substances that the sword passes.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakudha_Kaccayana
In the Brahmajala Sutta (DN 1), theories such as Pakudha's are labeled as "Atomic theory" (Pali/Skt.: anu vaada) and "eternalism" (sassatavādā).[2]
Empedocles is known as Pakudha Kaccayana of Greece.

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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by Zom » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:29 pm

there are lots of eternalists, prolly you are one of them,
Hardly 8-) Eternalists are those who pushes forward ideas about eternal mind, transcendent buddhas, indescribable nibbana, etc etc etc. Backdoor to samsara is opened wide for them -)

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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:33 pm

Zom wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:29 pm
Eternalists are those who pushes forward ideas about eternal mind, transcendent buddhas, indescribable nibbana, etc etc etc
No, eternalists merely claim,
the same consciousness continues from life to life.

Whereas Buddha said, consciousness changes.
Last edited by cappuccino on Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by cappuccino » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:37 pm

Don't be a lazy, careless Buddhist Zom.

Know what eternalism is and isn't.

Eternalism has nothing to do with Nirvana.

rightviewftw
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Re: The Buddha hasn't forgotten about us

Post by rightviewftw » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:43 pm

the Buddha did not exist as a truth or ultimate reality to begin with and all that could be said to have existed has been utterly extinguished, having no residue for a future with the arahant's death all modes of existence come to an end.
"Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all this is experience, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

"These bhikkhus, are the two Nibbana-elements."

Verse:
These two Nibbana-elements were made known
By the Seeing One, stable, and unattached:
One is the element seen here and now
With residue, but with the cord of being destroyed;
The other, having no residue for the future,
Is that wherein all modes of being utterly cease.

Having understood the unconditioned state,
Released in mind with the cord of being destroyed,
They have attained to the Dhamma-essence.
Delighting in the destruction (of craving),
Those stable ones have abandoned all being.
"And so, my friend Yamaka — when you can't pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare, 'As I understand the Teaching explained by the Blessed One, a monk with no more effluents, on the break-up of the body, is annihilated, perishes, & does not exist after death'?"
"And so, Anuradha — when you can't pin down the Tathagata as a truth or reality even in the present life — is it proper for you to declare, 'Friends, the Tathagata — the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment — being described, is described otherwise than with these four positions: The Tathagata exists after death, does not exist after death, both does & does not exist after death, neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"No, lord."
"Monks, I will teach you the All. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

"As you say, lord," the monks responded.

The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
It is not proper to declare that the Tathagata remembers you but when you recollect the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha, that is a help to you.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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