What is craving ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
James Tan
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:34 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:32 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:19 pm

Let’s take a look .

If you Want to walk from here to there is Not craving or attachment.

Craves for Ice-cream (eg) IS craving .

But , Wishing for continuous existence is Not Craving though . But is Thinking .

To annihilate one self is Not Thirst / craving .
as i understand it;
wanting to be somewhere is craving verbalized as "may i be there" or "may i be elsewhere"

Thinking is not same wishing, thinking can verbalize the desire but they are not the same.
Well , thanks for your reply .
:reading:

Dinsdale
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:57 pm

James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:50 am
I think the second quote is equivalent to craving for sensual pleasure !
Continuation of Existence is different from Continuation of Experience !
I mean craving for any kind of experience, even bad experiences which could include lower realms. Note that experiences can be both pleasant and unpleasant. Craving for sensual pleasure only applies to the pleasant experiences.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Dinsdale
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by Dinsdale » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:58 pm

James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Craves for Ice-cream (eg) IS craving .
It's nice though. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

SarathW
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by SarathW » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 pm

if bhava explain as FUTURE Existence or Realm .
Birth in any form is a result of craving.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by SarathW » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:23 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:58 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Craves for Ice-cream (eg) IS craving .
It's nice though. :tongue:
Well. Prepare to work hard as :D a bee.
:D
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

James Tan
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is craving ?

Post by James Tan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:10 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 pm
if bhava explain as FUTURE Existence or Realm .
Birth in any form is a result of craving.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

There are these four clingings: sensuality clinging, view clinging, precept & practice clinging, and doctrine of self clinging. This is called clinging.... From the origination of clinging comes the origination of becoming.



Is it To end existence is craving or hatred/aversion ?


Birth is not the result of craving as
The text appears to be saying , it is
The clinging that conditions becoming , becoming conditions birth .
:reading:

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Virgo
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by Virgo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:18 am

There are very good explanations in the Visuddhimagga.

Kevin...

pegembara
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by pegembara » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:31 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:48 am
Greetings ,

It seems that there is 2 version of Craving ,
Which is the correct one ?
Or both are the same ?


https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato

“It’s the craving that leads to future rebirth, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure in various different realms.
That is,
craving for sensual pleasures,
craving to continue existence, and
craving to end existence.

The Buddha said that this is the origin of identity.”


https://suttacentral.net/mn9/en/horner


Your reverences, there are these six (kinds of) craving:
Craving for material shapes,
craving for sounds,
craving for smells,
craving for flavours,
craving for touches,
craving for mental objects.
Craving is a 'pull or push' tendency. Like a magnet that attracts or repels.

What attracts/repels are the objects of the senses which includes ideas eg. religion, beliefs, that also include the belief in the existence of a core self, different levels of meditation(sphere of infinite space/consciousness/nothingsness/neither perception nor non-perception etc)
All your rafters broken, the ridge pole destroyed, gone to the Unformed, the mind has come to the end of craving.
So they are the same thing. The grosser forms of craving are easy to personally notice especially when ones ideas and beliefs are questioned. :sage:
"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Dinsdale
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:11 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:23 pm
Dinsdale wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:58 pm
James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:19 pm
Craves for Ice-cream (eg) IS craving .
It's nice though. :tongue:
Well. Prepare to work hard as :D a bee.
:D
No pain, no gain. :jumping:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

James Tan
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is craving ?

Post by James Tan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am

pegembara wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:31 am
James Tan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:48 am
Greetings ,

It seems that there is 2 version of Craving ,
Which is the correct one ?
Or both are the same ?


https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato

“It’s the craving that leads to future rebirth, mixed up with relishing and greed, taking pleasure in various different realms.
That is,
craving for sensual pleasures,
craving to continue existence, and
craving to end existence.

The Buddha said that this is the origin of identity.”


https://suttacentral.net/mn9/en/horner


Your reverences, there are these six (kinds of) craving:
Craving for material shapes,
craving for sounds,
craving for smells,
craving for flavours,
craving for touches,
craving for mental objects.
Craving is a 'pull or push' tendency. Like a magnet that attracts or repels.

What attracts/repels are the objects of the senses which includes ideas eg. religion, beliefs, that also include the belief in the existence of a core self, different levels of meditation(sphere of infinite space/consciousness/nothingsness/neither perception nor non-perception etc)
All your rafters broken, the ridge pole destroyed, gone to the Unformed, the mind has come to the end of craving.
So they are the same thing. The grosser forms of craving are easy to personally notice especially when ones ideas and beliefs are questioned. :sage:
"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.
So, are you saying greed is hatred , which is same coin different side ?
:reading:

Dinsdale
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Re: What is craving ?

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:51 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am
So, are you saying greed is hatred , which is same coin different side ?
For example: Aversion to noise results from craving for quiet.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

pegembara
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: What is craving ?

Post by pegembara » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:47 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am
So, are you saying greed is hatred , which is same coin different side ?
Pleasant feelings lead to desire for more ie. greed
Unpleasant feelings to desire for less ie. aversion

This desire(tanha) for more or for less cause restlessness which is a form of dukkha.

With nibbana with residue, the feelings are still present but there is no longer any greed/aversion/desire/craving.
"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

James Tan
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: What is craving ?

Post by James Tan » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:30 am

Dinsdale wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:51 am
James Tan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am
So, are you saying greed is hatred , which is same coin different side ?
For example: Aversion to noise results from craving for quiet.
Does Aversion to noise if in comparison to Annihilation of a person life , is still make sense equivalent to Thirst / Craving / Tanha ?

Thirsty to finish your own life ?
If so , there is example for an arahant whom Thirsty and Longing to end his life . Does that mean arahant still have Tanha ?
:reading:

Dinsdale
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Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: What is craving ?

Post by Dinsdale » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:47 am

James Tan wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:30 am
Dinsdale wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:51 am
James Tan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:34 am
So, are you saying greed is hatred , which is same coin different side ?
For example: Aversion to noise results from craving for quiet.
Does Aversion to noise if in comparison to Annihilation of a person life , is still make sense equivalent to Thirst / Craving / Tanha ?

Thirsty to finish your own life ?
I think the craving for non-becoming ( Second Noble Truth ) could be seen in these terms - aversion to continued life/experience, resulting from craving for a different kind of life/experience.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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