Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

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Volo
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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Volo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:30 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:02 am
i wonder who came up with that version of the story then, seems to be widely taught in that way.
In DPPN by Malalasekera the story is written in a way you've told. May be Hecker took it from there. There are also some Sri Lankan late (somewhere after 10th century) books, which contain Dhp-atthakata-like stories, may be these details are taken from them... :shrug:

It would also be nice to check PTS edition of dhp-a (in Pali) if somebody has it (I cited Burmese edition). May be there is some difference.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by BlackBird » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:55 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:15 pm
I'm thinking particularly of Nanavira Thera who claimed to be a stream-enterer.

Nanavira Thera, translator of Julius Evola and author of "Notes on Dhamma"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavira_Thera
An ariya-puggala (noble one) cannot commit suicide in the way we putthujana's (worldlings) think of suicide, but they most certainly can lay down their body (though it might be blameful), there are in fact a couple of instances in the Suttas of ariyans laying down their body due to an inability to progress due to illness or affliction and having not read the 7 odd pages of this thread, if someone hasn't already sourced these passages I could probably hunt them out, though my former index-level mental referencing has long since deserted me.

When I say they can't commit suicide by our conception, I mean that a putthujana's suicide necessarily involves attavada (self view), you have to 'be' in order to attempt to 'not be'. But what of that which is not a being?

This question seems to be a sticking point to many people when encountering Nyanavira's teachings and certainly one of the tentpoles of Mahaviharan's disdain for the existential approach. But it is founded in the wrong view of attavada (self view) that we putthujanas have. We attempt to superimpose our wrong view onto the Ariyan, and then try to nail down what exactly an ariyan can and cannot do.

Forget about that nonsense, it is more important that you become one yourself, then and only then will you know what lies within an ariya's possible courses of action.

Cheers
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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SkillfulA
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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by SkillfulA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 am

BlackBird wrote: An ariya-puggala (noble one) cannot commit suicide in the way we putthujana's (worldlings) think of suicide, but they most certainly can lay down their body (though it might be blameful), there are in fact a couple of instances in the Suttas of ariyans laying down their body due to an inability to progress due to illness or affliction and having not read the 7 odd pages of this thread, if someone hasn't already sourced these passages I could probably hunt them out, though my former index-level mental referencing has long since deserted me.

When I say they can't commit suicide by our conception, I mean that a putthujana's suicide necessarily involves attavada (self view), you have to 'be' in order to attempt to 'not be'. But what of that which is not a being?

This question seems to be a sticking point to many people when encountering Nyanavira's teachings and certainly one of the tentpoles of Mahaviharan's disdain for the existential approach. But it is founded in the wrong view of attavada (self view) that we putthujanas have. We attempt to superimpose our wrong view onto the Ariyan, and then try to nail down what exactly an ariyan can and cannot do.

Forget about that nonsense, it is more important that you become one yourself, then and only then will you know what lies within an ariya's possible courses of action.

Cheers
Jack
Hi

Would be educational to know about those instances.

I came across instances of "suicide" (so to speak) but those monks had completed the path already as well there was no vipaka for them to stay on.

I understand why some raise that challenging but legitimate question. The only way to answer it is through the suttas.

One can't take the recent case of ven. Nanavira's as a proof to answer that question since his claim of being a sotapanna is not verified by a Buddha.

Even if there are documented cases of a few Sotapanna's having committing "suicide" it doesn't verify Ven. Nanavira's claim of being one or not being one.

What we can totally agree with is that an ariyan has no view of there being a self. So suicide = killing yourself isn't applicable for an ariyan. Since it is known that some common people as well some arahants have committed "suicide" (so to speak) then of course everyone else in between which includes Sotapannas are capable of doing that as well.

The question of weather an sotapanna's action of "suicide" is blameworthy or even defiled/ unwise is another question.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by BlackBird » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:03 am

SkillfulA wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 am
Would be educational to know about those instances.

I came across instances of "suicide" (so to speak) but those monks had completed the path already as well there was no vipaka for them to stay on.
I am thinking of course of Channa Sutta primarily (and I'm sure you are too) but I seem to recall there were a couple of other instances. The debate was whether Channa was an arahant when he made the intention to 'use the knife' and from what I can recall, the occam's razor reading was that he was not.

One can't take the recent case of ven. Nanavira's as a proof to answer that question since his claim of being a sotapanna is not verified by a Buddha.
Wouldn't dream of it.
Even if there are documented cases of a few Sotapanna's having committing "suicide" it doesn't verify Ven. Nanavira's claim of being one or not being one.
No doubt, and as a 'Nyanavirist' I think the answer is, his status doesn't matter that much. What matters is really whether the approach is in line with the word of the Buddha, and whether it 'works' or doesn't work - After all, the Dhamma is paccattam vedittabbo vinnuhiti, so ultimately it's about you, not him. People tend to use Ven. Nyanavira's proclamation (that he did not want to be made public I might add) as the cornerstone upon which the whole edifice stands, this is the tail wagging the dog. Of course, most who practice the existential approach come to have such natural reverence for him that the belief follows as a matter of course, kind of like a belief in rebirth follows as a matter of course of the development of reasoned saddha.
What we can totally agree with is that an ariyan has no view of there being a self. So suicide = killing yourself isn't applicable for an ariyan. Since it is known that some common people as well some arahants have committed "suicide" (so to speak) then of course everyone else in between which includes Sotapannas are capable of doing that as well.
Yes, what I am driving at is that appropriation of the khandhas as me/mine/myself no longer exists for an ariyan and thus the idea of suicide from our worldly conception of it isn't the right way of looking at it.

Cheers
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by SkillfulA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:26 pm

BlackBird wrote: I am thinking of course of Channa Sutta primarily (and I'm sure you are too) but I seem to recall there were a couple of other instances. The debate was whether Channa was an arahant when he made the intention to 'use the knife' and from what I can recall, the occam's razor reading was that he was not.
There are so many instances of arahants committing "suicide" through traditional means as well supernatural ones. But I never read of an sotapanna up to anagami doing that. So I was wondering if you ever came across that?
Wouldn't dream of it.
Seems we are on the same page.
People tend to use Ven. Nyanavira's proclamation (that he did not want to be made public I might add)..
Do you have an proof for that? If not it is just a speculation and you can't state it like a fact.

Don't you think If he wouldn't have want anyone to read his notes he would have likely destroyed them completely?
Of course, most who practice the existential approach come to have such natural reverence for him that the belief follows as a matter of course, kind of like a belief in rebirth follows as a matter of course of the development of reasoned saddha.
Very understandable, normal.
Yes, what I am driving at is that appropriation of the khandhas as me/mine/myself no longer exists for an ariyan and thus the idea of suicide from our worldly conception of it isn't the right way of looking at it.
Exactly. We are on the same page.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by BlackBird » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:53 pm

SkillfulA wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:26 pm
People tend to use Ven. Nyanavira's proclamation (that he did not want to be made public I might add)..
Do you have an proof for that? If not it is just a speculation and you can't state it like a fact.

Don't you think If he wouldn't have want anyone to read his notes he would have likely destroyed them completely?
I am not in the business of treating a speculation as fact. To clarify when I said proclamation what I was refering to was his proclamation of attainment of Sotopatti which ended up being included as letter 1 in 'Clearing the Path' the letter is titled 'In the event of my death'. But the monk it was sent to ended up opening it well before that fact and was shocked at the contents and showed all his fellow monks and thus it became a scandal in the Sri Lankan Sangha. Ven. Nyanavira went to Colombo for treatment at one point and decided to address this now semi public knowledge with the certain Ven. monk. He references this situation in one of his letters:
And in the second place, I decided to speak openly to the Colombo Thera about a certain matter (which, I think, did not come as a surprise to you

It was not originally my intention to speak about this matter at all, but I found myself more and more at cross-purposes with various people, and the increasing strain of trying to provide a plausible account of my behaviour without mentioning the most important item eventually persuaded me that I was perhaps not justified in perpetuating false situations in this way. Whether my decision was right I am not sure (it is not the sort of thing about which one can consult someone else), but I feel that my position is much simplified since this rather awkward cat is out of the bag and is semi-public property for which I am no longer solely responsible. This seems to make living rather easier for me (though, of course, it also makes it easier to die). But what the effect of the announcement (which was actually intended for the Colombo Thera's ears only) on other people will be—whether of benefit to them or not, I mean—I really don't know.
- https://nanavira.org/post-sotapatti/196 ... -july-1964

Venerable Nyanavira most certainly wanted the Notes published and spread far and wide and went to some effort organising with Lionel Samaratunga to try and achieve this as can be seen in many of their letters.

Also please take a look at letter 47 for the full discussion he had on suicide of Ariyans and his own position. Interestingly, Ven. Nyanavira takes the position that the commentaries are wrong and Ven. Channa was an arahant.
Regarding the question of a bhikkhu's suicide, the view that it is better for him to disrobe rather than kill himself when he finds he can make no further progress is—if you will forgive me for saying so—a layman's view. There was at least one bhikkhu in the Buddha's day—the Ven. Channa Thera—who (in spite of what the Commentary says) killed himself as an arahat owing to incurable sickness; and there are many other examples in the Suttas of bhikkhus who—as ariyapuggalas—took their own life (and some became arahat in doing so—Ven. Godhika Thera, Ven. Vakkali Thera, for example).[2] One (who became arahat), the Ven. Sappadāsa Thera, could not get rid of lustful thoughts for twenty-five years, and took his razor to cut his throat, saying

sattham vā āharissāmi, ko attho jīvitena me
katham hi sikkham paccakkham kālam kubbetha mādiso (Thag. 407)
I shall use the knife—what use is this life to me?
How can one such as I meet his death having put aside the training (i.e. disrobed)?

And the Buddha himself warns (in the Mahāsuññata Sutta—M. 122: iii,109-18) that one who becomes a layman after following a teacher may fall into the hells when he dies. There is no doubt at all that, whatever public opinion may think, a bhikkhu is probably worse advised to disrobe than to end his life—that is, of course, if he is genuinely practising the Buddha's Teaching. It is hard for laymen (and even, these days, for the majority of bhikkhus, I fear) to understand that when a bhikkhu devotes his entire life to one single aim, there may come a time when he can no longer turn back—lay life has become incomprehensible to him. If he cannot reach his goal there is only one thing for him to do—to die (perhaps you are not aware that the Buddha has said that 'death' for a bhikkhu means a return to lay life—Opamma Samy. 11: ii,271).

There is in my present situation (since the nervous disorder that I have had for the past year consists of an abnormal, persistent, sometimes fairly acute, erotic stimulation) a particularly strong temptation to return to the state of a layman; and I have not the slightest intention of giving in to it. This erotic stimulation can be overcome by successful samatha practice (mental concentration), but my chronic amoebiasis makes this particularly difficult for me. So for me it is simply a question of how long I can stand the strain. (I do not think you would think the better of me for disrobing under these conditions.)
https://nanavira.org/index.php/letters/ ... 4-may-1963

These Suttas you can no doubt find easily at Sutta central, I think I've done enough digging for one post.

Cheers
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Manopubbangama » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm

DNS wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:46 pm
robertk wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:55 am
DNS wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:30 am


It's interesting that she was a sakadagami and had depression. A modern trend found in some Buddhists is the "arahantification of sotapannas" believing sotapannas are almost on a par with arahants and here is the report of a sakadagami (much higher than a sotapanna) with depression.
Yes. The sakadagami has removed all wrong view and attentuated sense desire.
But levels of sense desire still arise and hence so does aversion, even quite strong and continuing aversion.
I agree and since there is still sense desire and aversion, there can be depression. The modern trend of making noble states virtually an impossible state to attain, is mistaken, imo.
I personally don't have any magga or phala to proclaim and its not that I'm so humble but because I don't think I have attained them.

We can be certain that I am not an Arya here because an Arya would not/could not lie.

So at least we can deduce who is not an Arya.

Regarding who indeed IS an Arya, its brutally hard to tell: I know my teacher would never tell me his own level of magga, phala because its against his precepts. I suspect he is at least a Sotapanna.

That being said, what I would like to know, is if there is some kind of Saul of Tarsus moment when you are blinded by the light of stream entry and you actually know it yourself.

I do know the Abhidhammic prescription but it doesn't tell you if you are aware of it.

To make matters more complicated there are a slew of internet arahants that I seriously don't trust given their records of breaking precepts such as right speech. I trust that they think they are arahants and should be obeyed, admired, respected, etc but of course, its not that simple.

I'm not saying that I give up my search for Arahantship or Stream-Entry but I don't know exactly how to practice towards these attainments and have no idea that if Stream-entry occurs if I will even be aware of it. The way I interpret the Buddha's adherence to "strive on tirelessly" implies that suicide before arahantship would be an impossibility.

That being said, I still don't think my practice has been a waste; I know it has helped me quite a bit, but if someone can give me a realistic (Suttanta-based) prescription of what the experience of stream-entry is like, it would be great because I have read the Samyutta section, and several books on the topic, but still do not know.

The Evola translator, I feel, became addicted to jhana and grew depressed when he could no longer attain it. Not 100% sure but my gut-feeling is that he was not a sotapanna.

And for those who claim ( there are many here) that you need proper sila to attain jhana, than how did the Buddha learn arupa-jhanas before he had even invented/rediscovered the 8fold path?

Clearly Jhana can be attained without magga and phala. It can be attained without any seriously cultivated sila. This I am sure of.

And Jhana is an absolutely unmistakable experience, whereas stream-entry may or may not be - but if it is, I havn't found the stock formula for it.

In a way it is almost a curse to attain jhana before stream-entry because the craving for it can become extreme.

Its almost like eating your dessert before getting to your veggies.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by SkillfulA » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:53 am

Blackbird wrote:
I am not in the business of treating a speculation as fact.
Excellent (sorry for my in retrospect less than optimal formulation, better would have been something like "I read it as if you are stating a fact, would you mind to share the basis of your statement?") and thanks for those insightful selection of excerpts to get to know the bases of your statement.
Venerable Nyanavira most certainly wanted the Notes published and spread far and wide and went to some effort organising with Lionel Samaratunga to try and achieve this as can be seen in many of their letters.
Everything else would have been surprising.
Regarding the question of a bhikkhu's suicide, the view that it is better for him to disrobe rather than kill himself when he finds he can make no further progress is—if you will forgive me for saying so—a layman's view.
...
There is in my present situation (since the nervous disorder that I have had for the past year consists of an abnormal, persistent, sometimes fairly acute, erotic stimulation) a particularly strong temptation to return to the state of a layman; and I have not the slightest intention of giving in to it. This erotic stimulation can be overcome by successful samatha practice (mental concentration), but my chronic amoebiasis makes this particularly difficult for me. So for me it is simply a question of how long I can stand the strain. (I do not think you would think the better of me for disrobing under these conditions.)
Interesting. Typical inner battle of monks. There have been many monks ( in the last 100years) who have been plagued (selfless vipaka of selfless kamma) by mental and physical ailments but he is the only one I know of who resorted to the blameworthy (except for arahants buddha blamed the act of suicide [since they couldn't act without a certain degree of lobha dosa moha; it's an unskillful example; an action which doesn't cause faith to arise or faith to increase] - see for example origination story of 3rd parajika rule) act of suicide. But I am sure he was very intelligent and wrote many interesting and challenging things which is very appealing to likeminded people.
Well I feel enough thinking for me about him.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by robertk » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 am

what I would like to know, is if there is some kind of Saul of Tarsus moment when you are blinded by the light of stream entry and you actually know it yourself.

I do know the Abhidhammic prescription but it doesn't tell you if you are aware of it.

The monk (or layman) may not know exactly how much of the knife handle is worn down each moment but he is certainly aware that it is being worn down. So the path involves deepening wisdom.

When it comes to the stage of attaining Nibbana there is reviewing of this immediately after attainment and it would be totally clear that nibbana was touched.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
That being said, what I would like to know, is if there is some kind of Saul of Tarsus moment when you are blinded by the light of stream entry and you actually know it yourself.

I do know the Abhidhammic prescription but it doesn't tell you if you are aware of it.
It does. In the Abhidhamma, as in the Paṭisambhidāmagga (ch. XIV), insight development culminates in the ariyan path and fruit, and then in reviewing knowledge (paccavekkhaṇa-ñāṇa). And unlike in jhānic development, where paccavekkhaṇa has to be intentionally cultivated after emergence from jhāna, in insight development it occurs automatically after attainment of the ariyan fruit. And so though it's possible to be a jhāna-attainer and not know it, it's not possible to attain stream-entry and not know it.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
The Evola translator, I feel, became addicted to jhana and grew depressed when he could no longer attain it.
Addiction to jhāna doesn’t seem very likely. In a letter to Robert Brady Ñāṇavīra writes:
About the higher states (called jhānas), I am, unfortunately, unable to give you any personal account, since I have never reached them (though my motive in coming to Ceylon in the first place was to obtain them); but I am perfectly satisfied that they are attainable (given good health, persistence, and so on).
This was written twelve months before his death when he was already weakened by ill health.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
And for those who claim ( there are many here) that you need proper sila to attain jhana, than how did the Buddha learn arupa-jhanas before he had even invented/rediscovered the 8fold path?
A yogi outside the Buddha's dispensation may still have mundane right view (i.e., the doctrine of ownership of kamma and its ramifications) and on that basis practise moral restraint sufficient for jhāna.
And Jhana is an absolutely unmistakable experience, whereas stream-entry may or may not be - but if it is, I havn't found the stock formula for it.
In the Pali texts it seems to be the other way around. The Vinaya has a story of a bhikkhu who attained jhāna but didn't realise that he had done so, but there are no accounts of ariyan disciples who weren't aware of their ariyan attainments.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Volo » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:46 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 am
In the Abhidhamma, as in the Paṭisambhidāmagga (ch. XIV), insight development culminates in the ariyan path and fruit, and then in reviewing knowledge (paccavekkhaṇa-ñāṇa). And unlike in jhānic development, where paccavekkhaṇa has to be intentionally cultivated after emergence from jhāna, in insight development it occurs automatically after attainment of the ariyan fruit. And so though it's possible to be a jhāna-attainer and not know it, it's not possible to attain stream-entry and not know it.
Interesting. Could bhante give some quotations for this? :anjali:
The Vinaya has a story of a bhikkhu who attained jhāna but didn't realise that he had done so, but there are no accounts of ariyan disciples who weren't aware of their ariyan attainments.
But there are accounts of overestimating one's arahantship (may be also other fruits). If reviewing knowledge appears in each case, how would this be possible?

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:36 am

Volovsky wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:46 am
Interesting. Could bhante give some quotations for this? :anjali:
The chapter is quite short, so I'll scan it and post it later.
Volovsky wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:46 am
But there are accounts of overestimating one's arahantship (may be also other fruits). If reviewing knowledge appears in each case, how would this be possible?
Sure, puthujjanas can mistakenly think that they're arahants, but arahants can't mistakenly think that they're puthujjanas.
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by robertk » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:09 am

Volovsky wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:46 am

But there are accounts of overestimating one's arahantship (may be also other fruits). If reviewing knowledge appears in each case, how would this be possible?
A sotapanna (for example) would never imagine he was a Anagami, but a putthujana could think he was anything.

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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Manopubbangama » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 am
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
That being said, what I would like to know, is if there is some kind of Saul of Tarsus moment when you are blinded by the light of stream entry and you actually know it yourself.

I do know the Abhidhammic prescription but it doesn't tell you if you are aware of it.
It does. In the Abhidhamma, as in the Paṭisambhidāmagga (ch. XIV), insight development culminates in the ariyan path and fruit, and then in reviewing knowledge (paccavekkhaṇa-ñāṇa). And unlike in jhānic development, where paccavekkhaṇa has to be intentionally cultivated after emergence from jhāna, in insight development it occurs automatically after attainment of the ariyan fruit. And so though it's possible to be a jhāna-attainer and not know it, it's not possible to attain stream-entry and not know it.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
The Evola translator, I feel, became addicted to jhana and grew depressed when he could no longer attain it.
Addiction to jhāna doesn’t seem very likely. In a letter to Robert Brady Ñāṇavīra writes:
About the higher states (called jhānas), I am, unfortunately, unable to give you any personal account, since I have never reached them (though my motive in coming to Ceylon in the first place was to obtain them); but I am perfectly satisfied that they are attainable (given good health, persistence, and so on).
This was written twelve months before his death when he was already weakened by ill health.
Manopubbangama wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:19 pm
And for those who claim ( there are many here) that you need proper sila to attain jhana, than how did the Buddha learn arupa-jhanas before he had even invented/rediscovered the 8fold path?
A yogi outside the Buddha's dispensation may still have mundane right view (i.e., the doctrine of ownership of kamma and its ramifications) and on that basis practise moral restraint sufficient for jhāna.
And Jhana is an absolutely unmistakable experience, whereas stream-entry may or may not be - but if it is, I havn't found the stock formula for it.
In the Pali texts it seems to be the other way around. The Vinaya has a story of a bhikkhu who attained jhāna but didn't realise that he had done so, but there are no accounts of ariyan disciples who weren't aware of their ariyan attainments.
Thanks Bhante, I stand corrected regarding Nanavira.

Regarding stream entry, if someone is absolutely aware of it, are there any Tikas that cite what the experience is like and the exact path towards this attainment?

I believe in what the Dhammapada says about stream entry and want to dedicate my practice towards its attainment, but I'm not 100% of the best way to work towards it.

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Alīno
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Re: Can a sotāpanna committ suicide?

Post by Alīno » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:07 pm

Hello friends, :anjali:

Intresting point from "Great Disciples of the Buddha".

Sumana, daughter of Anathapindika, was once-returner at commit suicide after depression by starving. She was reborn in Tusita heaven.

Based on commentary to Dhp.
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Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...

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