Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:13 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:16 pm
Not to belittle such a laborious activity, but what was wrong with the translations of Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe?
Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe translations are not available on-line and do not have Pali-English word matching. If we actually understand how to properly study the Pali suttas, we would realise how important Bhikkhu Sujato's internet resource is. As for Bhikkhu Sujato's translations themselves , they are merely his personal translations and they are no so important. What is important is the on-line resource. The Buddha did not teach to blindly accept the teachings, let alone to blindly accept translations. All of the translations have inaccuracies in them therefore at least the Sutta Central resources allow the student to research and evaluate the correct message of the suttas by examining the Pali. For example, if you are not sure what a certain Pali word means, you can examine its usage in different suttas. Generally, a sutta will be found which unambiguously demonstrates the meaning of the word. The era of a string of blind translators using the same blind Pali dictionaries is over.

BKh
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by BKh » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:58 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:56 pm
I understand that Bhikkhu Sujato is currently working on translating the early parts of the Kuddhakanikaya, to make it available in the same, consistent, form, with the English/Pali option. I guess that would include the Dhammapada, Sutta Nipata, Udana, and Ittivuttaka.
So Ven Sujato already has the Theragatha translated up on SuttaCentral.net. I've heard though that an updated version is in the works. I don't believe it is set up to have the Pali matching yet. You can download an e-book here: https://readingfaithfully.org/verses-of ... indle-pdf/

He is also working on the Therigatha, as I have heard.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

BKh
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by BKh » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:05 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:13 am
Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe translations are not available on-line and do not have Pali-English word matching.
Sutta Central has quite a large number of Bhante Bodhi's translations on line, they just aren't segmented with the Pali. Wisdom Publications has real eased selected suttas for free, non-commercial distribution. 50 from the Majjhima and several hundred from the SN and AN. You can download ebook versions of them here:

http://readingfaithfully.org/selections ... epub-mobi/
http://readingfaithfully.org/selections ... epub-mobi/
http://readingfaithfully.org/selections ... epub-mobi/
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:40 am

BKh wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:05 am
You can download ebook versions of them here:
I paid for VBB's 1st edition of the MN back in 1994 or 1995 before it was even printed, which contributed to the printing. On my 3rd copy of MN and my SN (2nd copy) below (in the picture) might need replacing. The AN doesn't get used much and the DN I donated to a library years ago. Thanks for your offer despite your presumptuousness.
Attachments
sutta library.jpg

BKh
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by BKh » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:27 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:40 am
Thanks for your offer despite your presumptuousness.
Presumptuousness? Huh? I quoted you for the sake of continuity of the thread, but I wasn't really talking to you. Even still, I can't imagine what I was presuming. That you had never read the suttas? Any way, sorry.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

User avatar
pitakele
Posts: 139
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 11:27 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by pitakele » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:08 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:56 pm
The https://suttacentral.net/ translation of the Pali Vinaya is fairly complete....
Thank you for the update! Much appreciated ✳️
now here = nowhere

User avatar
StormBorn
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by StormBorn » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:57 pm

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:45 am
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:33 am
I got the impression BS had a computer copy of VBB's translations and then changed some or many of the words. Of course, I could be 100% wrong here.
I was around him when he was translating, and he seemed to be doing it from scratch.
He was asking a lot of senior pali speakers their opinion on various phrases and terms, and he did talk to Bhikkhu Bodhi a lot. The two are friends. So I think there was certainly a lot of cross-pollination, but no copying.
Do you have any clue for why BS wants a new translation? Thanks.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4231
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by Dhammanando » Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:19 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Do you have any clue for why BS wants a new translation?
He states his reasons here...

http://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/tra ... ikayas/341

Trindolex2
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:21 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by Trindolex2 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:45 pm

How about some praise for his wonderful achievement? I think what he did is extraordinary and has far wider implications for the spread of the Dhamma than just another translation.

How many times when telling people about Buddhism I was embarrassed to tell them that they need to spend $200+ just to read the original source, while free Bibles flood the world.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Trindolex2 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:45 pm
How about some praise for his wonderful achievement?
The translations themselves appear to have too much of a personal interpretation to receive widespread praise. Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations basically received high universal praise but I don't & can't see this occurring with the new (sectarian) translations of BS.
Trindolex2 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:45 pm
I think what he did is extraordinary and has far wider implications for the spread of the Dhamma than just another translation.
Buddhism has had its rises and falls due to interpretation. In India, Buddhism became extinct and almost extinct in Sri Lanka (where in degenerated into superstition before being revived merely for the purpose of fighting colonialist Christianity). In the 20th century, Buddhism had a "rise" or revival period, at least with the Western bhikkhu movement lead by Ajahn Chah, which was based on a different interpretation of the teachings than BS is offering.
Trindolex2 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:45 pm
How many times when telling people about Buddhism I was embarrassed to tell them that they need to spend $200+ just to read the original source, while free Bibles flood the world.
Interesting idea because the irony is interesting how with the invention of the printing press and the printing of the Bible, Christianity actually went into decline and the corrupted (supposedly Bible based) teachings of Protestantism became the preeminent Christian doctrine. BS's translations appear to be targeted to laypeople therefore I am not sure what implications this will have. All I know is I personally have made maximum use of the Sutta Central resource for examining how Pali words are used, which has been one of the greatest confirmations of understanding for me. For me, I find it ironic, while I don't agree with many of BS's translations, I am one individual gaining the highest benefits from Sutta Central. :smile:

User avatar
Volovsky
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:32 am

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by Volovsky » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:30 am

Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:16 pm
Not to belittle such a laborious activity, but what was wrong with the translations of Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe?
Nothing is wrong with Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations, but the more translations there are, the better it is (although I rarely use Ven. Sujato's translations). With Walshe's translation of DN there are many things wrong: he made many mistakes, as Ven. Thanissaro pointed in one of his notes to Potthapada Sutta:
5. LDB [Walshe's The Long Discourses of the Buddha] omits "alert" here. (There are many other mistakes in the LDB translation of this sutta, but as it would be tedious to note them all, I am noting only these two, to alert the reader to the fact that the sloppiness that unfortunately mars much of LDB is particularly evident in its translation of this sutta.)
Last edited by Volovsky on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
budo
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am
Location: The world

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by budo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 am

Speaking of translations, are there Nanamoli Thera's translations but without Bhikkhu Bodhi's changes/modifications? for example this sutta is purely Nanamoli's, and I find it very helpful and different than other suttas about the 3 characteristics - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html

User avatar
StormBorn
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by StormBorn » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:19 pm
He states his reasons here...
Thank you bhante.
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:07 pm
The translations themselves appear to have too much of a personal interpretation to receive widespread praise. Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations basically received high universal praise but I don't & can't see this occurring with the new (sectarian) translations of BS.
So far, I also came across more than 10 suttas where Bhante Sujato appears to be having an abnormal bias as a translator plus some surprising omissions too. Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations are more reliable and improving over the years.
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:07 pm
All I know is I personally have made maximum use of the Sutta Central resource for examining how Pali words are used, which has been one of the greatest confirmations of understanding for me. For me, I find it ironic, while I don't agree with many of BS's translations, I am one individual gaining the highest benefits from Sutta Central. :smile:
Same here. As an easy referential index to many textual sources, Sutta Central is a near perfect.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 16498
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:26 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 am
Speaking of translations, are there Nanamoli Thera's translations but without Bhikkhu Bodhi's changes/modifications? for example this sutta is purely Nanamoli's, and I find it very helpful and different than other suttas about the 3 characteristics - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
Ven Nanamoli's draft and notes for the MN are available here:
https://pathpress.wordpress.com/2013/09 ... ma-nikaya/

Here are some brief discussions:
viewtopic.php?t=18649
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ve ... ikaya/3854

:heart:
Mike

User avatar
budo
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am
Location: The world

Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by budo » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:42 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:26 pm
budo wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:42 am
Speaking of translations, are there Nanamoli Thera's translations but without Bhikkhu Bodhi's changes/modifications? for example this sutta is purely Nanamoli's, and I find it very helpful and different than other suttas about the 3 characteristics - https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nymo.html
Ven Nanamoli's draft and notes for the MN are available here:
https://pathpress.wordpress.com/2013/09 ... ma-nikaya/

Here are some brief discussions:
viewtopic.php?t=18649
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/ve ... ikaya/3854

:heart:
Mike
I've seen this link before, I was wondering if there was one that was clearly typed out, but maybe there isn't due to the timeline. Thank you though!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DarrenM, Google [Bot] and 93 guests