Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

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BKh
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Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by BKh » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:34 pm

Here are links to Ebook versions of Bhante Sujato's translations of the four Nikayas. They were created from data on the site after a major update in October 2018 and as of now are the most current versions. The links below will take you to pages with several formats: Epub, Kindle, PDF and Docx. The Kindle version has a table of contents that is more useful than if you just convert the epub.
Eventually they will be available on the SuttaCentral.net download page, but probably only the epub version.

Long Discourses—Digha Nikaya
Middle Discourses—Digha Nikaya
Linked Discourses—Samyutta Nikaya
Numbered Discourses—Anguttara Nikaya

All of his translations are CC0, public domain.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:58 am

Wonderful! Thank you for posting those download links. It's great to have free and complete translations of the nikayas.
I really like the translator's copyright: anyone is free to copy it, anyone is free to change it to a better translation. Open source.

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DooDoot
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:58 am
I really like the translator's copyright: anyone is free to copy it, anyone is free to change it to a better [another] translation. Open source.
After noticing a few typographical issues in some of BS's draft translations, I got the impression BS used VBB's translations as above.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 am
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:58 am
I really like the translator's copyright: anyone is free to copy it, anyone is free to change it to a better [another] translation. Open source.
After noticing a few typographical issues in some of BS's draft translations, I got the impression BS used VBB's translations as above.
How do you mean? :anjali:

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DooDoot
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:33 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 am
How do you mean? :anjali:
I got the impression BS had a computer copy of VBB's translations and then changed some or many of the words. Of course, I could be 100% wrong here.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:45 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:33 am
I got the impression BS had a computer copy of VBB's translations and then changed some or many of the words. Of course, I could be 100% wrong here.
I was around him when he was translating, and he seemed to be doing it from scratch.
He was asking a lot of senior pali speakers their opinion on various phrases and terms, and he did talk to Bhikkhu Bodhi a lot. The two are friends. So I think there was certainly a lot of cross-pollination, but no copying.

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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:48 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:45 am
I was around him when he was translating, and he seemed to be doing it from scratch.
Wow. That is a lot of work. :bow:
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:58 am
I really like the translator's copyright: anyone is free to copy it, anyone is free to change it to a better translation. Open source.
So I am allowed to cheat & do this:
12:2. Analysis

At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus (those who see the danger), I will teach and analyze for you dependent origination. Listen and pay close attention, I will speak.” “Yes, sir,” they replied. The Buddha said this:

“And what is dependent origination? Ignorance is a condition for fabricators. Fabricators are a condition for consciousness. Consciousness is a condition for mentality and materiality. Mentality and materiality are conditions for the six sense fields. The six sense fields are conditions for contact. Contact is a condition for feeling. Feeling is a condition for craving. Craving is a condition for attachment. Attachment is a condition for becoming. Becoming is a condition for birth. Birth is a condition for aging and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair to come to be. That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.

And what is aging and death? The aging, decrepitude, broken teeth, grey hair, wrinkly skin, diminished vitality, and failing faculties of the various beings in the various orders of beings. This is called aging. The passing away, perishing, disintegration, demise, mortality, death, decease, breaking up of the aggregates and laying to rest of the corpse of the various beings in the various orders of beings. This is called death. Such is aging and such is death. This is called aging and death.

And what is birth? The [mental] production, entering and completion of the birth of [the mental views of] various beings in various orders of beings based on the manifestation of aggregates acquired via the sense fields. This is called birth.

And what is becoming? There are these three states of becoming: sensual becoming, form becoming and formless becoming. This is called becoming.

And what is attachment? There are these four kinds of attachment. Sensual pleasure attachment, views & opinions attachment, precepts and observances attachment and theories of a self attachment. This is called attachment.

And what is craving? There are these six classes of craving. Craving for sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touches and mind objects. This is called craving.

And what is feeling? There are these six classes of feeling. Feeling born of contact through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. This is called feeling.

And what is contact? There are these six classes of contact. Contact through the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. This is called contact.

And what are the six sense fields? The sense fields of the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind. These are called the six sense fields.

And what is mentality and materiality? Feeling, perception, intention, contact and attention. This is called mentality. The four primary elements, and form derived from the four primary elements. This is called materiality. Such is mentality and such is materiality. This is called mentality and materiality.

And what is consciousness? There are these six classes of consciousness. Eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind consciousness. This is called consciousness.

And what are fabricators? There are three kinds of fabricators: the body fabricator, the speech fabricator and the mind fabricator. These are called fabricators.

And what is ignorance? Not knowing about suffering, the origination of suffering, the cessation of suffering and the path of practice that leads to the extinguishing of suffering. This is called ignorance.

And so, ignorance is a condition for fabricators. fabricators are a condition for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates. When ignorance fades away and extinguishes with nothing left over, fabricators extinguish. When fabricators extinguish, consciousness extinguishes. … That is how this entire mass of suffering extinguishes.”

Translated for James The Giant
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DooDoot
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Last edited by DooDoot on Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:07 am, edited 7 times in total.

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:56 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:48 am
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:45 am
I was around him when he was translating, and he seemed to be doing it from scratch.
Wow. That is a lot of work.
Yes, he was at it for four years or so full time. He used some amazing custom-made computer tools which automatically translated Pali stock phrases into English, and things like that. That saved heaps of time.
Plus there's a whole team assisting, it's not just him.
DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:48 am
So I am allowed to cheat & do this:
Translated for James The Giant
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DooDoot
You mean put your name on someone else's translation? I guess so, but you'd be lying, right?

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DooDoot
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by DooDoot » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 am

JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:56 am
You mean put your name on someone else's translation? I guess so, but you'd be lying, right?
Well, I did change or offer an alternate translation for some of the key translation words. Is that lying? Some translation was done. :)
Amended Translation for James The Giant
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DooDoot

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by JamesTheGiant » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 am

DooDoot wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 am
JamesTheGiant wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:56 am
You mean put your name on someone else's translation? I guess so, but you'd be lying, right?
Well, I did change some of the key translation words. Is that lying?
Aha, sorry i didn't spot that. Hmm yes I suppose that's okay then. Best to attribute the previous translator, but yes, this way people who know more or understand the suttas better can improve things. I can't judge, i only got to lesson 4 in the AK Warder Pali textbook, but perhaps your words are more accurate.

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by Manopubbangama » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:16 pm

Not to belittle such a laborious activity, but what was wrong with the translations of Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe?
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pitakele
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by pitakele » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:38 pm

Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:16 pm
Not to belittle such a laborious activity, but what was wrong with the translations of Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe?
Ven. Sujāto's main motivation (I think) was to provide a complete free translation of the suttas to accompany the Pali texts on Sutta Central - in other words, to promulgate the Dhamma. The other translations can be expensive to purchase, except for Sri Lanka (& other countries?) where there are much discounted 'Asian' prices.
now here = nowhere

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Manopubbangama
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by Manopubbangama » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:49 pm

pitakele wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:38 pm
Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:16 pm
Not to belittle such a laborious activity, but what was wrong with the translations of Bikkhu Bodhi and Maurice Walshe?
Ven. Sujāto's main motivation (I think) was to provide free translations of the suttas to accompany the Pali texts on Sutta Central - in other words, to promulgate the Dhamma. The other translations can be expensive to purchase, except for Sri Lanka (& other countries?) where there are much discounted 'Asian' prices.
So kinda like accesstoinsight 2.0.

How about vinaya and abhidhamma?
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pitakele
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by pitakele » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm

Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:49 pm
So kinda like accesstoinsight 2.0.
How about vinaya and abhidhamma?
Afaik, the ATI translations are far from exhaustive. It would be good if there were complete free translations of the Vinaya & Abhidhamma also.
now here = nowhere

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mikenz66
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Re: Bhikkhu Sujato's Four Nikaya translations as Ebooks—October 2018

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:56 pm

pitakele wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:04 pm
Manopubbangama wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:49 pm
So kinda like accesstoinsight 2.0.
How about vinaya and abhidhamma?
Afaik, the ATI translations are far from exhaustive. It would be good if there were complete free translations of the Vinaya & Abhidhamma also.
The https://suttacentral.net/ translation of the Pali Vinaya is fairly complete, I think. Currently they are working on implementing the parallel English/Pali for the Vinaya translation (by Bhikkhu Bramali) that already is running for Bhikkhu Sujato's translation of the first four Nikayas.

I understand that Bhikkhu Sujato is currently working on translating the early parts of the Kuddhakanikaya, to make it available in the same, consistent, form, with the English/Pali option. I guess that would include the Dhammapada, Sutta Nipata, Udana, and Ittivuttaka.

The English/Pali option can be very useful in clarifying how certain passages have been translated, since you also have on-line lookup of the Pali terms by hovering over the words.

And there are translations of significant portions of the Abhidhamma. It's useful to look through those to see that what many people mean when they say "Abhidhamma" is actually much later commentaries.

As for Access to Insight, the Thanissaro Bhikkhu translations and essays there are now outdated, and it would be better to consult https://www.dhammatalks.org/ for those.

However, there are some essays and translations of suttas and commentaries, and so on that are only on https://accesstoinsight.org/

:heart:
Mike

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