rightviewftw wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:10 am
I am not too excited
about explaining it because that Dhamma is beyond conjecture and is to be directly discerned so it is far easier to explain what it is not rather than explaining what it is.
Since you are not too excited, so I took priority to settle other things first; before putting forward my view. And I'm trying to locate one sutta that mention of about no-footing of namarupa, and that the deva praise lord Buddha, yet they do not understand what The Buddha was meditating upon. Anyway fail to locate it.
This post is also to answer my own question why would there be “āyatanaṃ” in Ud8.1
, my mistake to wrongly classified upper statement as cessation, it should be description for Jhana phenomena of an arhat that later take cessation as “object”.
In a post in suttacentral
Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ is a description of conciousness that is kind of "neutral", as the sensual craving is suspended, ie. Jhana.
Here, I mentioned neutral, is only a description; it did not means that there was a consciousness. Perhaps it is completely wrong to say that it is neutral.
General taking of “anidassanaṃ” is not-seened; another way of saying, is disappearing
. If you take a look at this post on Ekaggata
, your take of description for “Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ” is Jhana consciousness at loop 0. But if you look at consciousness in Jhana, top-down from loop 0 to loop 5; the sutta anidassanaṃ in Viññāṇaṃ anidassanaṃ is referring to “Viññāṇaṃ” at loop 4->5; from disappearing in loop 1 till vanished in loop 5; that, consciousness in loop 3 Jhana will still has to take cessation as “object”.
Ancient bhikkhu has already tried to explain that, you can see in A Manual of Abhidhamma section 9_57, by Narada Mahà Thera,
, it mentions
When such a person wishes to attain to Nirodhasamapatti, he first attains to the first jhana and, emerging from which, he meditates on the transiency, sorrowfulness, and soullessness of conditioned states found in that particular jhana. Likewise, he attains, in order, to the remaining jhanas and meditates in the same way until the Arupa-Jhana of ‘Nothingness’.
Emerging from this jhana, he makes the following four resolutions:—
After making these resolutions, he attains to the last Arupajhana of ‘Neither Perception nor Non-Perception’ and remains in that state for two javana thought-moments. Immediately after he attains to Nirodha-samapatti when his stream of consciousness is temporarily suspended.
When an Arhat is “alive”, it is said consciousness is temporarily suspended
, therefore at parinibbana, consciousness vanished!
Within the same post, has these
What exactly is no footing, I don't know! Imagine when ekaggata snap; perhaps it is the split moment of this "phantom” of vinnana "getting lost without namarupa"! Which means, the constant flux of self is a delusion?
It was a mistake of mine to phrased it wrongly, it would be better to include another inverted comma for getting lost
; “getting lost” does not apply, consciousness is just not present.
Why “don't know”? When one try to objectify it, that is wrong. In the sutta that I could not find on
“ don't understand”
, no-footing appear to be the center stage, but in that sutta, I would say “don't understand” is the center stage. Essentially, not to objectify is the theme in that sutta; don't know!
(Mike, can help to locate that sutta? Thanks!)
Thanks, both you and chownah
, that lead me to revisit the word ekodibhāva
in a post in suttacentral. I was wrong looking into the matter, putting “eko” at the center stage (one sided emphasis) as the topic was started with ekodi; eko+bhava, looking at both, then only it is balance.
Looking at the frame of loop 1 to loop 5 in ekaggata post, and that ekodibhāva appears in second Jhana; if I were to take second Jhana as the fruition Jhana and map that with Loop 2, what is not present in Jhana loop 2 is element of infinitude of space. So the one that is being suspended out of the loop is space element.
Is unification suitable for ekodibhāvaṃ? I think it is going to be problematic. Unification seems to objectify the phenomena, and it is going to be conflicting the nature
of vanishing, one-out from a loop then on the next; is not unite nor bring together, as it is more of a derivation process. What meditator is trying to do is essentially removing the sine and cosine part of it, so that derivatives can work. For the best word for ekodi and ekodibhāva, language is never my cup of tea. But then I would be more onto interpreting ekodi to mean “ferreting out One by One” and taking bhāva as just phenomena.
On chownah's question, I would say, end of suffering is the “direction”, cessation is the “object”. But need to figure out; is patiloma arupa mixed or seperated from Jhana? This term in Manual of Abhidhamma
Arupa-Jhana of ‘Nothingness’...
Arupajhana of ‘Neither Perception nor Non-Perception’
should gives an idea of what it is.