Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by DooDoot » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 am

Mr Man wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:10 pm
"Believes Buddha Lives in Nibbana".
What exactly is meant by the above? I didn't find it explained in the article. Thanks
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:50 am
excellent article
How can "soy milk" be a "medicine" when many doctors warn about it and even say it can turn a man into a paṇḍaka?




bksubhuti
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by bksubhuti » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:27 am

Do all branch monasteries of Wat Pa Pong exclude non Wat Pa Pong Monks from Patimokkh? If that is the case now it has not always been the case
.

In Thailand, it is practiced for a few months until they think you are "fit". They even strip you of seniority.
The international wpp monasteries allow the monks inside the meetings and keep your seniority. Ie amaravati, etc.
Wpn might be mixed since it is international.
I was stripped of seniority when I went to Ajahn Piak's place with my pa-Auk ordination. I never stayed for patimokkha.

The idea of making you be at the end...if you are not a real monk then if you touch the food, it is not offered anymore.
That is true with lay people or novice monks. If you are the last Bhikkhu in line then you don't affect other bhikkhus.

For patimokkha , all monks must be real.

This 3 month thing makes no sense though. You is or isn't.

Someone told me that Pa-Auk ordinations are now accepted in dhammayut but not na-uyana. I know a na-uyana monk who was rejected. Ironically na-uyana and dhammayut are both Ramana Nikaya (Myanmar).

bksubhuti
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by bksubhuti » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:35 am

Mr Man wrote: ↑ "Believes Buddha Lives in Nibbana".
What exactly is meant by the above? I didn't find it explained in the article. Thanks
Read the last section. I explained it.
Also google "The Dark Side of Ajahn Mun's Biography"
Also google " Does the Buddha live in Nibbana"
Both on AmericanMonk.org

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Volovsky
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by Volovsky » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:33 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:01 am
How can "soy milk" be a "medicine" when many doctors warn about it and even say it can turn a man into a
It has nothing to do with health benefits, but with whether monks can eat it in the afternoon and keep it for several days (which is not allowable for normal food). Sugar (molasses) might be not very beneficial for health, but Buddha allowed to eat it in the afernoon if a monk is sick. Therefore most candies would count as "medicine", also (probably) marshmallow, etc. Some things (like soya milk, chocolate, cheese) are disputable.

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DooDoot
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by DooDoot » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:43 am

bksubhuti wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:35 am
Read the last section. I explained it.
What was explained? It just says: the book written on Ajhan Mun’s life, believe that the Buddha lives in Nibbana.
bksubhuti wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:35 am
Also google "The Dark Side of Ajahn Mun's Biography"
I have personally raised this Ajahn Mun-Ajahn Chah matter before here on this forum; giving my impression the so-called 'Thai Forest Tradition Lineage' is more of a mythology than a fact. When I was living in a monastery in Thailand, for a number of years, I heard many (recorded) dhamma talks of Ajahn Sumedho. Even though these rambling talks would bore me into meditation, I don't recall Ajahn Sumedho talked about Ajahn Mun very much. My recollection was the Ajahn Mun-Maha Boowa thing was distinct from the Ajahn Chah thing; which was distinct from the Buddhadasa thing.

For example, recently I was listening to what for me were very creepy talks by another Ajahn Chah lineage "Western Ajahn". There is really no conformity among the Ajahn Chah Ajahn's. The teachings of Sumedho, Amaro, Brahmavamso, Jayasaro, Chandako, Creepy Ajahn, etc, are often miles apart. Even Sujato often contradicts Brahmavamso. The following ideas in my opinion are false:

1. Ajahn Mun is inherently related to Wat Pa Pong

2. Wat Pa Pong is a tradition of uniform doctrine.

Personally, I have recently been considering returning to the monastery within the Ajahn Chah tradition however the Ajahns are so varied it gets pretty confusing. Also, the Ajahn that recently gave me the creeps really diminished my faith in the whole Ajahn Chah system (which appears rife with 'individualism'). The point I am making is to say "Wat Pa Pong" is a set doctrine appears non-sequitur. Pa-Auk may be a cult or sect but my impression of Wat Pa Pong is it is something quite different; just a bunch of Westerners who do their compulsory 5 or 10 years and then go off and do their own thing.

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Samana Johann3
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by Samana Johann3 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:48 am

- It's, to begin, not a monastery that is responsible for one conduct...
- It's furthermore a gratiduteless and poor investigated product, with no doubt on been based on very unskilful mind.
- Even if certaincritic would be justified: how small are the faults in if looking at the bunch of grave faults here to lift oneself...:

Is it allowed to speak of faults of other Bhikkhus to lay-people?
Isn't it highly respectless to speak on Vinaya without having given leave?
Are the means of sharing given?
What are the consequences of going for split in the Sangha?

There no need to speak about the accumulated Kamma and the bunch of backwards given to those bond to fools.


As you are used to censure critic while shooting outwardly from your secure thought position, there is no doubt that you have found equal here, nourishing on the same ugly food.

May you start to take the Buddhas medicine proper to get soon healed in the case you see some benefit in such. No doubt that therwise you may disrobe soon or become another Dhammika-shame for the increase of misfortune in this world... Your choice.

Moderator note: ad hominem comments removed before the post was authorised

SarathW
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by SarathW » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:45 pm

I see your point SJ.
But as lay people, we have the right to know.
Even if we are lay people some of the members here are Sangha (lay Sangha and Ordained Sangha).
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

bksubhuti
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by bksubhuti » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:47 am

Everything I say is in the BMC. What is not in the BMC, the the reason why it is not followed by "other" traditions.
Everything mentioned is public knowledge and I double checked with another monk who is well informed of the Thai Forest Traditions..
There are no names mentioned but it is the way of the tradition.
WKS used to have cheese. They stopped that once they learned that other traditions don't accept that. They researched it and they stopped. They are a righteous tradition which I have lots of respect for.
There is no purpose to criticize the monks. If there is criticism on this forum it is from the users commenting on this article.. I said in the beginning that it is small stuff and the monasteries that are mentioned who live up to their tradition's reputation, are good monks and good monasteries. That is said in the beginning.
The purpose of this is to let people know who want to ordain and decide what is the best monastery for them.

bksubhuti
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Re: Vinaya Comparison of Monastery Allowances

Post by bksubhuti » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:56 am

Samana Johann3 ,
Few people know about Cambodia as a place where foreigners can live or ordain. What is you monastery name and location. Do they use money?
Perhaps you can fill out the table with the topics included according to such a monastery you live in.
You should be open about it. It is not a problem for them and they don't keep it secret. In fact, they want people to know this so people can offer Cheese, Cigarettes, betel etc. Many monasteries are happy and train the lay people to give money to monks. They are open about it because they get all of these things from the lay people.
Let us know the name location and what they do. However, if they use money, I'm not interested in knowing. It is not an allowable place to live in because if they "buy" a floor or paint with money that monks have touched, then the whole building is not allowable.

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