Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:00 am

Greetings,
budo wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:54 am
I agree with you it's not very convincing at all, and in fact quite the opposite.
Indeed - the partisan sectarian posturing entailed in such statements detracts from the reality that any teaching should stand or fall on its own merits, not by who can threaten karmic retribution upon another with the greatest pomposity.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:13 am

Disparaging the Noble Ones creates obstructive kamma that precludes any further progress on the path until one asks for forgiveness.

This is not a threat. It is a warning.

Preparatory Stage

An additional rule is not to speak with contempt, in jest, or with malice to or about any of the noble ones who have attained states of sanctity. If you have done so, then personally apologize to him or her or make an apology through your meditation instructor. If in the past you have spoken contemptuously to a noble one who is at present unavailable or deceased, confess this offence to your meditation instructor or introspectively to yourself.

Sayādaw U Paṇḍita was not being pompous when he stated the above facts.

I believe "A fall" refers to monks who fell away from the holy life, but I don't have time to research the details. See Criticism and Replies.
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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:13 am
Disparaging the Noble Ones creates obstructive kamma that precludes any further progress on the path until one asks for forgiveness.

This is not a threat. It is a warning.

Preparatory Stage

An additional rule is not to speak with contempt, in jest, or with malice to or about any of the noble ones who have attained states of sanctity. If you have done so, then personally apologize to him or her or make an apology through your meditation instructor. If in the past you have spoken contemptuously to a noble one who is at present unavailable or deceased, confess this offence to your meditation instructor or introspectively to yourself.

Sayādaw U Paṇḍita was not being pompous when he stated the above facts.

I believe "A fall" refers to monks who fell away from the holy life, but I don't have time to research the details. See Criticism and Replies.
Ariyupavadantaraya does not refer to questioning the teachings of a person or asking questions when in doubt but to Insulting a Noble One as in saying:
They have no asceticism, path attainment or jhana or "reviling them with worst accusations", like saying that an arahant has delusion. Which is an obstruction to the path and heavenly rebirth. Even that itself is a commentarial notion tho.

These kind of warnings do not instill faith and are likely to be perceived as culty imo. Frankly it sounds like something one might say to villagers to scare them straight.

Warnings or threats of karmic retribution are also against the ToS.

if i am unable to attain higher paths in this life and incur the Ariyupavadantarayu offense by mere questioning then be it.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:19 pm

Is your signature a vain threat of kammic retribution or is it true that liars go to hell?
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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:23 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:19 pm
Is your signature a vain threat of kammic retribution or is it true that liars go to hell?
signature is one thing and it is something from Sutta Pitaka therefore it is certainly not a vain warning, you are here making direct warnings and violating the ToS Bhante
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:28 pm

Quoting respected elders or the texts and commentaries is not violating the Terms of Service.

Disparaging specific traditions used to be at one time, but it seems to be fine nowadays.
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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:39 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:28 pm
Quoting respected elders or the texts and commentaries is not violating the Terms of Service.

Disparaging specific traditions used to be at one time, but it seems to be fine nowadays.
2d. Unsubstantiated allegations against individuals or traditions - including psychoanalyzing other members, and predictions or threats of kammic retribution
That is against ToS.

Anyway i was hoping you would explain the teachings and dispell my doubts and am somewhat disappointed.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by budo » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:47 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:28 pm
Quoting respected elders or the texts and commentaries is not violating the Terms of Service.

Disparaging specific traditions used to be at one time, but it seems to be fine nowadays.
From the perspective of someone who is completely ignorant, how does one know which tradition is right or wrong? and which to follow? Should one follow the one that threatens karmic retribution the most?

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:47 pm

http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf

short overview how he uses terms.
If the characteristics of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and not-self are truly comprehended by contemplating the sensation of touch at every moment of its occurrence, attachment will have no chance to occur, and will be eliminated or avoided. Again, if attachment ceases, then becoming (bhava), the resultant of merits and demerits, which come into existence through desirable attachment, will not occur, and no new existence comprising mind and matter will come into being as a result of kamma.
This method of meditation is taught in the Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta wherein instructions such as “When walking one knows, ‘I am walking’ (gacchanto vā ‘Gacchamī’ti pajānāti),” and when standing, sitting, or lying down, one knows it as “standing,” “sitting,” or “lying down,” as the case may be. Next, any physical behaviour or bodily movements, should be clearly noted as they occur.
This is the instruction to contemplate and note the sense of touch occurring in the physical body, when walking. Therefore, if it is contemplated and noted as ‘walking,’ ‘standing,’ ‘sitting,’ ‘lying,’ ‘bending,’ ‘stretching,’ ‘shaking,’ ‘rising’ and ‘falling’ (of the abdomen), ‘touching,’ and so on, the five aggregates of attachment, which are involved in the act of knowing the sense of touch, will be realised as mere mind and matter.
It will also be known as causes and effects arising and disappearing continually. It is also appreciated as impermanent because it arises and vanishes immediately. This will lead to the knowledge that it is not-self or without individuality, over which there is absolutely no control. This is how the aggregates of attachment, which is also called the personality is known as it truly is.
aggregates of attachments are prolly the clinging aggregates.
The personality, which is synonymous with the aggregates of attachment, is, in fact, the Truth of Suffering. As such, knowing it fulfils the task of knowing the Truth of Suffering as it really is. This is realising or perceiving it in an analytical way(dukkhaṃ ariyasaccaṃ pariññeyyaṃ) in accordance with the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta.
The Buddha’s teachings identifing the aggregates of attachment with the personality are found in the Sakkāya Sutta of the Saṃyuanikāya (S.iii.158):

“Katamo ca, bhikkhave, sakkāyo? Pañcupādānakkhandhātissa vacanīyaṃ. Katame pañca? Seyyathidaṃ — rūpupādānakkhandho, vedanupādānakkhandho, saññupādānakkhandho, saṅkhārupādānakkhandho, viññāṇupādānakkhandho. Ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, sakkāyo.”

Therefore, as taught by the Buddha, the answer should be that the personality implies the five aggregates of attachment. Mind and matter, which are clearly manifested by physical movements and feelings, and mental sensations (consciousness) that arise at every moment of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking constitute the personality.
If the psycho-physical phenomena of mind and matter is not known as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and not-self by insight knowledge (vipassanā-ñāṇa), then attachment arises, which gives rise to a mistaken view that they are a permanent, pleasant and beautiful, and that they are a living being, a self, or an individual.
Thus, mind and matter which evidently exist, are called the aggregates of attachment. Attachment possesses the intrinsic characteristic of grasping or clinging. According to the expression given in this Sutta, it is in fact produced by craving, which conveys the meaning of passionate desire (chandarāga).
In the teachings in the Suttanta Piṭaka, attachment which clings to the five aggregates is only described as passionate desire. However, according to the Abhidhamma, attachment is classified into four kinds:
1. Attachment to sensual pleasures(kāmupādāna),
2. Attachment to views(diṭṭhupādāna),
3. Attachment to rites and rituals(sīlabbatupādāna) and
4. Attachment to the self(attavādupādāna).

Attachment to sensual pleasures is craving for desirable sense objects. This is equivalent to passionate desire.

Attachment to the self means clinging to the idea of a self (which is in fact just mind and matter), and as it clings to a self, ego, or a living being, it is a false view of reality(diṭṭhi).
some letters missing by copy pasteing from ebook, some i filled.

imho pretty clear picture.

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:42 pm

http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf
Pleasurable feelings arise if one considers the sight to be agreeable, or if one likes the sound, odour, taste, or touch. This conception of agreeability in all sense-contacts is ignorance (avijjā) or delusion (moha).
The disagreeable or unsatisfactory nature of the psycho-physical phenomena arising and passing away incessantly, though in fact it is unsatisfactory, it is wrongly conceived as something enjoyable and pleasant.
Because ignorance conceals the uth, impermanence is wrongly perceived as permanence. The disagreeable or unsatisfactory nature of the psycho-physical phenomena arising and passing away incessantly, though in fact it is unsatisfactory, it is wrongly conceived as something enjoyable and pleasant. Ceaseless arising and dissolution of psycho-physical phenomena which reveals not-self (anaa), is conceived as self (aa) or ego. The disgraceful or detestable body is conceived as full of grace and charm.
i think in Sutta is applied different way of analyzation

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"What is pleasant feeling? What is painful feeling? What is neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"

"Whatever is experienced physically or mentally as pleasant & gratifying is pleasant feeling. Whatever is experienced physically or mentally as painful & hurting is painful feeling. Whatever is experienced physically or mentally as neither gratifying nor hurting is neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling."
"In what way is pleasant feeling pleasant, lady, and in what way painful?"

"Pleasant feeling is pleasant in remaining, & painful in changing, friend Visakha. Painful feeling is painful in remaining & pleasant in changing. Neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling is pleasant in occurring together with knowledge, and painful in occurring without knowledge."
"What obsession gets obsessed with pleasant feeling? What obsession gets obsessed with painful feeling? What obsession gets obsessed with neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"

"Passion-obsession gets obsessed with pleasant feeling. Resistance-obsession gets obsessed with painful feeling. Ignorance-obsession gets obsessed with neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling."
ignorance seem to be 4th jhana thing.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"As he is touched by that painful feeling, he is resistant. Any resistance-obsession with regard to that painful feeling obsesses him. Touched by that painful feeling, he delights in sensual pleasure.
Why is that?
Because the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person does not discern any escape from painful feeling aside from sensual pleasure.
As he is delighting in sensual pleasure, any passion-obsession with regard to that feeling of pleasure obsesses him. He does not discern, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling. As he does not discern the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, or escape from that feeling, then any ignorance-obsession with regard to that feeling of neither-pleasure-nor-pain obsesses him.
idk i wouldn't follow(as being a great prophet or something) MS but use what he writes as a support for clinging aggregates.

http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf
By developing absorption(jhāna), one would be liberated from the whirlpool of sensual pleasures and elevated to the brahmā realms in the next life, where there is great bliss. Through the diligent practice of meditation when insight knowledge (vipassanā-ñāṇa) is achieved, one would be totally free from the dangers and adversity of the cycle of existence.
really..

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"As for the individual who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, his duty is to make an effort in establishing ('tuning') those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the (mental) fermentations.
the other individuals need come that individual who has both.
"The individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, should approach an individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and ask him: 'How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'Fabrications should be regarded in this way. Fabrications should be investigated in this way. Fabrications should be seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:12 pm

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Ananda, I do not envision even a single form whose change & alteration would not give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair in one who is passionate for it and takes delight in it.

"But there is this (mental) dwelling discovered by the Tathagata where, not attending to any themes, he enters & remains in internal emptiness. If, while he is dwelling there by means of this dwelling, he is visited by monks, nuns, lay men, lay women, kings, royal ministers, sectarians & their disciples, then — with his mind bent on seclusion, tending toward seclusion, inclined toward seclusion, aiming at seclusion, relishing renunciation, having destroyed those qualities that are the basis for mental fermentation — he converses with them only as much as is necessary for them to take their leave.[1]
"So, Ananda, if a monk should wish, 'May I enter & remain in internal emptiness,' then he should get the mind steadied right within, settled, unified, & concentrated. And how does the monk get the mind steadied right within, settled, unified, & concentrated? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensual pleasures, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana... the second jhana... the third jhana... the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain. That is how a monk gets the mind steadied right within, settled, unified, & concentrated.
two sides, one thinks there is no jhana needed other thinks there is. According t oSutta atleast it seem jhana is required

the desire passion is abandoned,
"Ananda, there are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Sounds cognizable via the ear... Aromas cognizable via the nose... Flavors cognizable via the tongue... Tactile sensations cognizable via the body — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. These are the five strings of sensuality where a monk should reflect on his mind repeatedly: 'Is there within me, in any circumstance or another, any engagement of awareness that arises with regard to these five strings of sensuality?' If, on reflection, the monk discerns, 'There is within me, in one circumstance or another, an engagement of awareness that arises with regard to these five strings of sensuality,' then — this being the case — he discerns that 'Desire-passion for the five strings of sensuality has not been abandoned by me.' But if, on reflection, he discerns, 'There is not within me, in any circumstance or another, any engagement of awareness that arises with regard to these five strings of sensuality,' then — this being the case — he discerns that 'Desire-passion for the five strings of sensuality has been abandoned by me.' In this way he is alert there.
also with five clinging aggregates, conceit is abandoned
"There are these five clinging-aggregates where a monk should stay, keeping track of arising & passing away (thus): 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance. Such is feeling... Such is perception... Such are fabrications... Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.' As he stays keeping track of arising & passing away with regard to these five clinging-aggregates, he abandons any conceit that 'I am' with regard to these five clinging-aggregates. This being the case, he discerns, 'I have abandoned any conceit that "I am" with regard to these five clinging-aggregates.' In this way he is alert there.
The dwelling discovered by Tathagatha is for who has 4 jhanas. And the conceit and desire passion are abandoned then, insight alone is not enough.
"And how do students engage with the teacher in friendliness and not in opposition? There is the case where a teacher teaches the Dhamma to his students sympathetically, seeking their well-being, out of sympathy: 'This is for your well-being; this is for your happiness.' His disciples listen, lend ear, & apply their minds to gnosis. Not turning aside, they don't stray from the Teacher's message. This is how students engage with the teacher as friends and not as opponents.
its a gnosis, not plane descriptions.

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:23 pm

http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf
Pleasurable feelings arise if one considers the sight to be agreeable, or if one likes the sound, odour, taste, or touch. This conception of agreeability in all sense-contacts is ignorance (avijjā) or delusion (moha).

The disagreeable or unsatisfactory nature of the psycho-physical phenomena arising and passing away incessantly, though in fact it is unsatisfactory, it is wrongly conceived as something enjoyable and pleasant.

Because ignorance conceals the uth, impermanence is wrongly perceived as permanence. The disagreeable or unsatisfactory nature of the psycho-physical phenomena arising and passing away incessantly, though in fact it is unsatisfactory, it is wrongly conceived as something enjoyable and pleasant. Ceaseless arising and dissolution of psycho-physical phenomena which reveals not-self (anaa), is conceived as self (aa) or ego. The disgraceful or
that could be actually five strings of sensuality, and desire passion.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Ananda, there are these five strings of sensuality. Which five? Forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. Sounds cognizable via the ear... Aromas cognizable via the nose...

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:28 pm

http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf
“Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpaiyā vuṭṭhahantassa panāyye, bhikkhuno katame dhammā paṭhamaṃ uppajjanti — yadi vā kāyasaṅkhāro, yadi vā vacīsaṅkhāro, yadi vā ciasaṅkhāro”ti. —
“Sister! What kind of formations occur first after a bhikkhu emerges from the cessation of perception and feeling, is it bodily, verbal, or mental formations?”
Dhammadinnā answered: A “Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpaiyā vuṭṭhahantassa kho, āvuso Visākha, bhikkhuno paṭhamaṃ uppajjati cittasaṅkhāro, tato kāyasaṅkhāro, tato vacīsaṅkhāro”ti. —
“When a bhikkhu emerges om the cessation of perception and feeling, mental formations arise first, then bodily formations, then verbal formations.”
When arising from the attainment of cessation, the fruition consciousness of Non-returning, or the fruition consciousness of Arahantship begins to occur. As this consciousness should have occurred in conjunction with the fourth jhāna, no opportunity occurs for inhalation.
It is without initial and sustained application. However, mental formations such as perception and feeling will occur. Therefore, mental formations of thought occur first. Thereaer, inhalation also occurs om the moment of the arising of sub-conscious mind. At the time of arising of this sub-conscious mind, as it is not conducive to speech, despite the inclusion of initial and sustained application, it cannot be said that verbal formations have occurred yet. The answer is that only aer that, do verbal formations occur.
“Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpaiyā vuṭṭhitaṃ panāyye, bhikkhuṃ kati phassā phusantī”ti. —
“Sister! When a bhikkhu emerges om the cessation of perception and feeling, how many kinds of contact occur?”
To this question, Dhammadinnā answered as follows: A “Saññāvedayitanirodhasamāpaiyā vuṭṭhitaṃ kho, āvuso Visākha, bhikkhuṃ tayo phassā phusanti — suññato phasso, animio phasso, appaṇihito phasso”ti. —
“Friend Visākha. When a bhikkhu emerges om the cessation of perception and feeling, three kinds of contact occur — voidness, signlessness, or desirelessness.”
It has already been stated that the attainment of fruition occurs first when arising om cessation. Being free from passion, etc., it is also called voidness (suññata). As it is free of the sign of passion (rāga-nimitta), one of the attibutes of sentient existence, it is also known as signlessness (animitta). Moreover, as it is free from passionate desire such it is also called desirelessness(appaṇihita). So contact that is included in this attainment is also known as void, signless, and desireless. As contact occurs by dwelling on nibbāna, which is known as the void(suññatā), unconditioned, and desireless, with attentive consciousness of mind, it is called voidness. The answer, therefore, is that the three kinds of contact, voidness, signlessness, and desirelessness, occur first. For better understanding, it may be stated that when emerging om the attainment of cessation, contact occurs with nibbāna, a condition devoid of defilements, to which the mind has been directed as its sense-object. Contact is also made with nibbāna which is devoid of any sign. Then comes mere awareness of contact with nibbāna, a condition free from passionate desire, which is the sense-object that has been contemplated.
………………question is coming up when to read mn 122[https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html), won't tathagatha breath? and is bulletproof when on.
"But there is this (mental) dwelling discovered by the Tathagata where, not attending to any themes, he enters & remains in internal emptiness. If, while he is dwelling there by means of this dwelling, he is visited by monks, nuns, lay men, lay women, kings, royal ministers, sectarians & their disciples, then — with his mind bent on seclusion, tending toward seclusion, inclined toward seclusion, aiming at seclusion, relishing renunciation, having destroyed those qualities that are the basis for mental fermentation — he converses with them only as much as is necessary for them to take their leave.[1]
http://www.saraniya.com/books/mahasi-sa ... _sutta.pdf
“Sukhāya panāyye, vedanāya kiṃ anusayo anuseti, dukkhāya vedanāya kiṃ anusayo anuseti, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya kiṃ anusayo anusetī”ti — “Sister! What kind of latent tendency lies dormant in pleasant feeling, what kind lies dormant in painful feeling, and what kind lies dormant in neual feeling?
Latent tendency (anusaya) means something that readily occurs when circumstances permit.
Dhammadinnā’s answer was: A “Sukhāya kho, āvuso Visākha, vedanāya rāgānusayo anuseti, dukkhāya vedanāya paṭighānusayo anuseti, adukkhamasukhāya vedanāya avijjānusayo anusetī”ti. —
“Friend Visākha! The latent tendency to lust lies dormant in pleasant feeling. The latent tendency to aversion lies dormant in painful feeling. The latent tendency to ignorance lies dormant in neutral feeling.”
anusaya, latent tendency, Thanissaro translates to opsession? latent tendency seem better.

but over all i still not understand(i mean it is not written why, i think there is a reason for it) why in that Sutta the feelings are spoken after spoken about cessation of perception and feeling.
answer could be what immersions, maybe 2nd is the development what MS is biased by.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Monks, these are the four developments of concentration. Which four?

There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.
There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the attainment of knowledge & vision.
There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.
There is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by auto » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:59 pm

why 2nd type of concentration or immersion is because of the type of practice MS teaches when starting out. Noting practice, noting intension. Energetically intent is not liberated, it is liberated by cultivating intend. Intent to change posture, MS suggest to note it when it happens. Why not tune into what is tried to achieve with it, there will come a mind state. If to just note it will take a long time, and eventually through a rapid noting.. instead of concentrating of becoming more alert and mindful(3rd development).

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Re: Are teaching of Mahasi Sayadaw questionable?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:45 pm

Some key points about this thread.
  1. The title chosen by Sarath W is typical. It is designed to court controversy, which seems to be the main purpose of this forum now. A better approach would be: "I am trying to practise the Mahāsi method: Can anyone offer some guidance?" If you're not interested in practising the Mahāsi method, that's fine, but do practise whatever other method you prefer instead of casting aspersions or seeking to find fault with the Mahāsi method. No harm will come from practising Satipaṭṭhāna meditation if it is done diligently with a skilled teacher
  2. On faith in the technique: From In This Very Life: “Verified faith does not arise because you hear statements you find plausible. No comparative study, scholastic research nor abstract reasoning can bring it. Nor is it shoved down your throat by some sayādaw, roshi, rinpoche, or spiritual group. Your own direct, personal, intuitive experience brings about this firm and durable kind of faith.”
  3. On Balancing the Faculties of Faith and Wisdom: From In This Very Life: “If faith is stronger than wisdom, one is apt to become gullible or to be carried away by excessive devotional thoughts, a hindrance to practice. Yet, on the other hand, if knowledge or intelligence is in excess, a cunning and manipulative mind results. One can deceive oneself in many ways, even about the truth.”
  4. From the perspective of someone who is completely sarcastic, the way to remove doubts and ignorance is to approach a skilled meditation teacher or read his teachings carefully, then to practise meditation diligently according to the proper Satipaṭṭhāna method. “In This Very Life,” is one of the most thorough and reliable works in English on the teachings of the Mahāsi Sayādaw. The Videos on my website are also a reliable source of instruction in the proper Mahāsi method. The Malaysian bhikkhu U Aggacitta was the Interpreter for the Sayādaw during his 3 month course at Barre Mass, the talks given during which are the source for In This Very Life. About other traditions I have little to say, though I did practise the U Ba Khin method under various teachers for about 3 years, so I do know a little about it.
  5. On Dispelling Doubts: The Buddha had this to say to Dhotaka Māṇava: “I am not able to liberate anyone, having doubts in the world, Dhotaka. When you understand the excellent Dhamma, thus you will cross the flood.” If you have doubts about the Mahāsi method then it may be due to excessive use of the critical faculty. It must be balanced with faith (see above).
I rarely comment here now because it has become a place for contentious disputes. Only if I see something that may be harming others do I step in to comment. I may also comment simply to provide a link to new information.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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