Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
rightviewftw
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:47 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:41 pm
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
It is really strange to me that you are allowed to post here arguing for non validity of what is known as the second of the three classic laws of thought namely the principle of non-contradiction. You are essentially arguing against fundamental principles of mathematics and logic. I think it is ridiculous.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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cappuccino
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:52 pm

I'm just quoting the scriptures, & restating the scriptures

sans doubt & disbelief

rightviewftw
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:55 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:52 pm
I'm just quoting the scriptures, & restating the scriptures

sans doubt and disbelief
what you are doing is spamming the same statements and essentially trolling but the sad part is that you seem to be serious.
If i say that you have been refuted, that is not my opinion. You have been refuted in several ways and that can be proven but you are just ignoring it.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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cappuccino
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:55 pm

sadly I'm serious

(as I said, I'm merely quoting scriptures)

rightviewftw
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:00 am

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:55 pm
sadly I'm serious

(as I said, I'm merely quoting scriptures)
That is not all you are doing, you are also making vain and false accusations, making false statements, disrupting threads, confusing and annoying people.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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cappuccino
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:08 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:00 am
That is not all you are doing, you are also making vain and false accusations, making false statements, disrupting threads, confusing and annoying people.
I may be confusing and annoying you…

oh well

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dylanj
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by dylanj » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:21 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:45 am
I will tell you

eternal ism has to do with unchanging identity

eternity is something else

Nirvana is eternal
you have made a thing of nibbana, given it static & essential identity in the same way an eternalist gives that to themselves.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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xofz
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by xofz » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:30 am

I'm happy with all interpretations of Nibbana. Please, don't suffer. If we speak from a heart of good-will maybe we will be happy (hopefully not *too* happy).
becoming aware!

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cappuccino
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:08 pm

dylanj wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:21 am
you have made a thing of nibbana
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44

Robert123
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Robert123 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Rightviewftw, sorry for the late reply

rightviewftw wrote:
Consider this;
if a person attains cessation of the conditioned, as far as he is concerned the world has vanished with you and him in it.

You however might still perceive the body, but that is seeing arising for you, has nothing to do with him in as far as you would be unable to postulate his existence as truth or an ultimate reality beyond the extent of seeing. If you touch him it is sensory impression arising for you. Therefore you and the person only exists in as far as you can conceive and perceive it. Therefore that by which you conceive and perceive the world is called the world in this dispensation.

The person who has attained cessation does not exist outside of your conception and perception until he emerges from that attainment, having emerged from that attainment the world is conceived and perceived by him in as far as sensory impressions arise.

If you yourself was to attain cessation, as far as you are concerned the world would disappear along with any perception, feeling or consciousness by which you might have perceived or cognized your own existence or the existence of another prior to cessation, like waking up from a dream except herein the awakening is to the unconditioned and timeless.
We may disagree on this. I think that the world would still be perceived in "fruition attainment" phala samapatti. In contrast, the world would completely disappear in nirodha sammapatti because in nirodha samapatti awareness ceases.

I believe that the suttas you used in your previous comment to demonstrate this above quoted comment refer to phala samapatti. The world would be still perceived in phala samapatti but it would be perceived as an empty mirage--holographic-like.

Rob

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Volovsky
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Volovsky » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:54 pm

Robert123 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:01 pm
We may disagree on this. I think that the world would still be perceived in "fruition attainment" phala samapatti.
In phala samapatti Nibbāna is the object, not the world.

Robert123
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Robert123 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 pm

I agree with you, I just think that while having nibbana as the object objects are still perceived but they are perceived as a mirage, empty, holographic. This is why you can still function in the world when in phala samapatti--your body can still move and you can still drink your coke.

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Volovsky
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Volovsky » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:30 am

Robert123 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 pm
This is why you can still function in the world when in phala samapatti--your body can still move and you can still drink your coke.
Does this have support in the texts (in suttas, commentaries, Abhidhamma, Vism)?

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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Dinsdale » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:31 pm

dylanj wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:21 am
you have made a thing of nibbana, given it static & essential identity in the same way an eternalist gives that to themselves.
Though there are sutta passages which suggest that. "Unconditioned" means not subject to conditions, ie unchanging.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

Robert123
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Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by Robert123 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:45 pm

Does this have support in the texts (in suttas, commentaries, Abhidhamma, Vism)?
I think a case for both views could be made.

I like this quote from Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw, but he may be worthless to you, I don't know.
In one who applies himself to achieving the attainment of fruition, knowledge of arising and passing away will arise at the beginning. Advancing from there in the due sequence, soon the knowledge of equanimity about formations is reached. But when skill in the practice has been acquired, the knowledge of equanimity about formations will arise quickly even after four or five acts of noticing. If the power of concentration has reached perfection, the fruition consciousness will repeatedly become absorbed in cessation by way of fruition attainment. The mind can thus reach absorption even while one is walking up and down, or while taking a meal, and the fruition attainment can remain for any length of time resolved upon. During the fruition attainment, the mind will abide only in the cessation of formations and will not be aware of anything else. https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... tml#ch7.18

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