Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:40 am

you feel gone, it's a subjective feeling

that's all

losing a body is called death

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:43 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:40 am
[...]
losing a body is called death
You should be posting your eternalism doctrine elsewhere, maybe there is a forum for taoism;
The process of death itself is described as shijie or "release from the corpse"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism_and_death
either way it is not cool of you to come here and vainly accuse people on a Buddhist forum of wrong view for not conforming to your eternal soul ideas.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:44 am

apparently you need to learn the meaning of eternal ism

and why it's different from eternal and eternity

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:45 am

I will tell you

eternal ism has to do with unchanging identity

eternity is something else

Nirvana is eternal

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:52 am

you think nibbana is eternal soul/consciousness of a being that goes from life to life, i get it, we established it long time ago.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:55 am

show me where soul is refuted in the scriptures

you can't because soul isn't refuted

though annihilation is refuted here

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:05 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:55 am
show me where soul is refuted in the scriptures

you can't because soul isn't refuted
i can easily show how it is refuted by inference but you seem to lack the skillset to understand it. Furthermore whenever you are confronted with Sutta you tend to say; The meaning of this is not to be taken literally or you accuse me "you take words too seriously". Imo you are among the top 3 most stubborn and attached wrong view people on this board and it is clear that not only do you not understand the Dhamma, your beliefs of eternal duration are magical thinking.

Therefore I will not bother cross-questioning you on your views because i see no point in it.
2. Now on that occasion a pernicious view had arisen in a bhikkhu named Sāti, son of a fisherman, thus: “As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another.”
3. Several bhikkhus, having heard about this, went to the bhikkhu Sāti and asked him: “Friend Sāti, is it true that such a pernicious view has arisen in you?”
“Exactly so, friends. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another.”
Then those bhikkhus, desiring to detach him from that pernicious view, pressed and questioned and cross-questioned him thus: “Friend Sāti, do not say so. Do not misrepresent the Blessed One; it is not good to misrepresent the Blessed One. The Blessed One would not speak thus. For in many ways the Blessed One has stated consciousness to be dependently arisen, [257] since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness.”
Yet although pressed and questioned and cross-questioned by those bhikkhus in this way, the bhikkhu Sāti, son of a fisherman, still obstinately adhered to that pernicious view and continued to insist upon it.
4. Since the bhikkhus were unable to detach him from that pernicious view, they went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, they sat down at one side and told him all that had occurred, adding: “Venerable sir, since we could not detach the bhikkhu Sāti, son of a fisherman, from this pernicious view, we have reported this matter to the Blessed One.”
5. Then the Blessed One addressed a certain bhikkhu thus: “Come, [258] bhikkhu, tell the bhikkhu Sāti, son of a fisherman, in my name that the Teacher calls him.”—“Yes, venerable sir,” he replied, and he went to the bhikkhu Sāti and told him: “The Teacher calls you, friend Sāti.”
“Yes, friend,” he replied, and he went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, sat down at one side. The Blessed One then asked him: “Sāti, is it true that the following pernicious view has arisen in you: ‘As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another’?”
“Exactly so, venerable sir. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is this same consciousness that runs and wanders through the round of rebirths, not another.”
“What is that consciousness, Sāti?”
“Venerable sir, it is that which speaks and feels and experiences here and there the result of good and bad actions.”
“Misguided man, to whom have you ever known me to teach the Dhamma in that way? Misguided man, have I not stated in many ways consciousness to be dependently arisen, since without a condition there is no origination of consciousness? But you, misguided man, have misrepresented us by your wrong grasp and injured yourself and stored up much demerit; for this will lead to your harm and suffering for a long time.”
6. Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus thus: “Bhikkhus, what do you think? Has this bhikkhu Sāti, son of a fisherman, kindled even a spark of wisdom in this Dhamma and Discipline?”
“How could he, venerable sir? No, venerable sir.”
Just as Sati here, you do not have a spark of wisdom in this Dhamma.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:07 am

consciousness changes from life to life

you're not who you were & not who you will be

may you figure that out

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:18 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:07 am
consciousness changes from life to life

you're not who you were & not who you will be

so to speak
This is how it will go;

I ask
So what is it that disconnects from the body after death?
- The Soul
Then i ask what is this Soul?
- You will say that it is that which goes from life to life disconnecting
Then i ask if you think Vinnana Anidassam is the Soul
- You will say yes
Then i ask where have you ever seen it being taught like this?

You will not have any evidence at all for it being something that sheds a body and will probably link the moot translation of a single line of verse saying where Dhuvam is referred to as "everlasting"

Then i tell you that Nibbana is timeless Akaliko and that per definition X timeless is without a duration and thus does not last.
- You will say i take words too seriously and proceed to saying that Soul is nowhere refuted in the Discourses.

Let's summarize
You have zero evidence and even your best single line of verse is directly countered by Akaliko and common sense
Therefore you have no evidence and are refuted by a single word, let alone the rest of the Tipitaka.

Therefore not only can your theories be dismissed without evidence they can also be refuted by a single word.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:23 am

there are many views about the soul

a jungle of views we should not attempt to solve

said Buddha

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:34 am

Soul is a imaginary concept, where X has a characteristic of eternal duration without need of nutriment.

A lot like the concept of God-Creator it is a completely baseless assumption.

A soul per definition of lasting forever would need a dimension wherein it lasts.

This dimension too, would need to last forever.

Furthermore this world would either need to be populated by souls or the world wherein a soul abides need to be separated by the world where the soul of another abides, in the latter case there would need to be a world where these worlds gain a footing.

This is not Buddhism, this is baseless fantasy.

Soul is supposedly something that exists in ultimate sense, something created that has a duration infinite.

Duration implies change because if there is no change no duration can be discerned, therefore it is impossible for something to both be existing and remaining the same as is the case with this supposed Soul.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:38 am

the teaching isn't annihilation, nor is it a pretzel

a pretzel that somehow finds its way to annihilation
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:38 am
I don't know how you reconcile annihilation ism with Buddh ism
i don't know how these unsubstantiated allegations are allowed.

Furthermore;
If Nibbana was a soul then one Nibbana would be different from Another Nibbana and they would hang out in a Nibbana dimension.

No snare like delusion.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by cappuccino » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:49 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 am
allegations
since you can't believe in everlasting Nirvana

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Did Buddha Permanently Dwell in Nibbana or was In-and-Out

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:51 am

cappuccino wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:49 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 am
allegations
since you can't believe in everlasting Nirvana
stop saying Nirvana, just say a Soul. Don't hide it.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 97 guests