Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:20 am

Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?
I just wonder why we instruct people to follow the Noble Eightfold Path, not the NTP?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4508
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by Sam Vara » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:38 am

Do you mean without Right Knowledge and Right Release?

My simple guess is that there are, canonically, far more references to the Eightfold Path than to the ten; and that the sutta which is held by tradition to be the Buddha's first has eight.

SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:53 am

Do you mean without Right Knowledge and Right Release?
Yes
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
StormBorn
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by StormBorn » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:38 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:20 am
Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?
I just wonder why we instruct people to follow the Noble Eightfold Path, not the NTP?
Because, Noble Eightfold Path is the "Path". Right Knowledge and Right Release are the destination. We follow the Path and reach the destination. We don't follow the destination. It's cause & effect, actually.

That's what a very wise monk said to the same question. But these days, some even try to practise the result also. Which one the smart Sarath follow? :sage: :tongue:
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Dinsdale
Posts: 6096
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Andromeda looks nice

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:30 am

SarathW wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:20 am
Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?
Please, no more, I can't even cope with eight. :tongue:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:21 am

What is the Sutta relating to Tenfold analysis?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4508
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:24 pm

SarathW wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:21 am
What is the Sutta relating to Tenfold analysis?
MN 117 has this:
In this context, right view comes first. And how does right view come first? For one of right view, wrong view is worn away. And the many bad, unskillful qualities that arise because of wrong view are worn away. And because of right view, many skillful qualities are developed to perfection. For one of right thought, wrong thought is worn away. … For one of right speech, wrong speech is worn away. … For one of right action, wrong action is worn away. … For one of right livelihood, wrong livelihood is worn away. … For one of right effort, wrong effort is worn away. … For one of right mindfulness, wrong mindfulness is worn away. … For one of right immersion, wrong immersion is worn away. … For one of right knowledge, wrong knowledge is worn away. … For one of right freedom, wrong freedom is worn away.
which makes ten.

dharmacorps
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:29 pm

Like others have said, I feel like the other 2 describe the completion of the path. The 9th and 10th would be more like the icing on the cake.

SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:21 pm

Noble Eightfold Path is the "Path". Right Knowledge and Right Release are the destination.
Thanks all.
This is my understanding too.
Noble Eightfold Path is the Magga (Path). Right Knowledge and Right releases are the (Phala) fruit or the result.
It seems, it is inaccurate to say Tenfold Path even though sometimes we use this term.
=========
"the Buddha makes a similar distinction between the noble eightfold path of stream-entry and the tenfold path of Arahantship."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... part2.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

form
Posts: 702
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by form » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:33 pm

The higher the number, the more likely it is a product of more addition and editing. This is a theory i read from some scholar book. Which book i dun remember now. The more theoretical a dhamma is presented the less practical it will be, this is my view.

BKh
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by BKh » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:04 pm

It seems, it is inaccurate to say Tenfold Path even though sometimes we use this term.
It's inaccurate because there is no such term. I believe you just made it up. It's true there is a set of ten factors that have right and wrong, like the Eightfold Path does. But, unless I am mistaken, there is never a tenfold path as such mentioned anywhere.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 pm

I believe you just made it up.
No. It is used in many places. As you have seen in my above post even Ven. Thannisaro used the same term even though it appeared to be the wrong usage.
======
Tenfold Path
In the Mahācattārīsaka Sutta[46][47] which appears in the Chinese and Pali canons, the Buddha explains that cultivation of the noble eightfold path of a learner leads to the development of two further paths of the Arahants, which are right knowledge, or insight (sammā-ñāṇa), and right liberation, or release (sammā-vimutti).[48] These two factors fall under the category of wisdom (paññā).[49]

The Noble Eightfold Path, in the Buddhist traditions, is the direct means to nirvana and brings a release from the cycle of life and death in the realms of samsara.[50][51]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eig ... nfold_Path
Last edited by SarathW on Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

SarathW
Posts: 10371
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by SarathW » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:45 pm

"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. [4] Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

BKh
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 12:43 am

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by BKh » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:24 am

SarathW wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:38 pm
I believe you just made it up.
No. It is used in many places.
Very sorry. What I should have written is that there is no such term as "Noble Tenfold Path" which is what you wrote in your OP.

But I would still be curious if the term "tenfold path" as such is found in the Suttas. I don't believe that it is. Sorry if I am being too picky.
ReadingFaithfully.org Daily Practice with the Suttas | becomeabuddhist.org
audtip. org Audio Sutta Recordings | BuddhaRupa Images of the Buddha across time and space

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Why don't we follow Noble Tenfold Path?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:40 am

form wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:33 pm
The higher the number, the more likely it is a product of more addition and editing. This is a theory i read from some scholar book. Which book i dun remember now. The more theoretical a dhamma is presented the less practical it will be, this is my view.
The term sammāvimutti is found in lots of sutta, here; and sammāñāṇassa, here.
BKh wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:24 am
Sorry if I am being too picky.
Your inquiry appears most relevant (since an Arahant is probably not walking a path anymore since they reached the destination).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 125 guests