Jambudipa

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
TRobinson465
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by TRobinson465 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:27 am

how interesting.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

James Tan
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by James Tan » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:17 am

Perhaps one might want to consider where are the Jains naked ascetics nowadays , because those events took place at the same time along with the Buddha and Hinduism . Does the naked ascetics or any traces could be found in Sri Lanka ?

Based other buddhist texts and Agama translation texts where it's brought back from India to China by Indian monks and Chinese monks and including the commentaries written by Chinese monks , seems to contradict many things .
The ancient kingdom of Magadha is heavily mentioned in Jain and Buddhist texts. It is also mentioned in the Ramayana, the Mahabharata and the Puranas. The Mauryan Empire and Gupta Empire, both of which originated in Magadha.
Also , Jain texts tell how Ajatashatru used two new weapons: a catapult, and a covered chariot with swinging mace that has been compared to a modern tank.
So, does the Magadha site anywhere to be found in Sri Lanka ?
:reading:

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:06 pm

James Tan wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:17 am
Perhaps one might want to consider where are the Jains naked ascetics nowadays , because those events took place at the same time along with the Buddha and Hinduism . Does the naked ascetics or any traces could be found in Sri Lanka ?
Well, the island produces Buddhas in cycles. Kashyapa, Gotama and so on. The current cycle belongs to Gotama. When the cycle ends the Dhamma deteriorates and the noble truths are forgotten. People go back to deity worship and people just live by the 5-precepts. Once the super-mundane path is forgotten the Brahma realm becomes the highest attainment possible with the prevailing knowledge.

When the Gotama Buddha emerged there were 64 different faiths in the island. This would have included Veda, Upanishads and Jain teachings. Although everyone adopt the Buddha Dhamma with Royal patronage once the Buddha emerges.
James Tan wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:17 am
The ancient kingdom of Magadha is heavily mentioned in Jain and Buddhist texts. It is also mentioned in the Ramayana, the Mahabharata and the Puranas. The Mauryan Empire and Gupta Empire, both of which originated in Magadha.

Also , Jain texts tell how Ajatashatru used two new weapons: a catapult, and a covered chariot with swinging mace that has been compared to a modern tank. So, does the Magadha site anywhere to be found in Sri Lanka ?
I do not know have a complete picture with regard to the Chinese Agama's and the Ramayana etc. If its Maghada of Jambudipa then it has to the Maghada of the island. So I suppose you have to re-visit the history leaving aside pre-conceived notions.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

James Tan
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by James Tan » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:18 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:06 pm
.....
Do not forget Mahavira , where in Sri Lanka about Him missing here in your story and of course the naked ascetics disciples roaming around in Northern India not in Sri Lanka . The place of Mahavira death, Pavapuri (now in Bihar), is a pilgrimage site for Jains.

Okay , sayonara .
:reading:

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:08 pm

James Tan wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:18 pm
Do not forget Mahavira , where in Sri Lanka about Him missing here in your story and of course the naked ascetics disciples roaming around in Northern India not in Sri Lanka . The place of Mahavira death, Pavapuri (now in Bihar), is a pilgrimage site for Jains.
Well, this is how the "Jambudipa" is depicted in a 15 ce Jain Temple.

Image

Source

This map would not exist if the island had nothing to do with the Jains - isn't that so?
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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Dhammanando
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:21 am
The entire Buddha history including the Askoka empire is from Sri Lankan Chronicles. The historians used the Sri Lankan ones to build a history for India. None of Indian history is based on Indian works.
That's not so. In their reconstruction of the history of Indian Buddhism modern historians use a range of Indian, Sinhalese, Tibetan and Chinese chronicles. See the bibliographies in Etienne Lamotte's History of Indian Buddhism or A.K. Warder's Indian Buddhism.
rajitha7 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:21 am
There are some missing information particularly with regard to Asoka but there is enough and more to prove Buddha was born in the island.
I think you are just bluffing and strongly doubt that you've ever read a Sinhalese chronicle in your life. The said chronicles make it abundantly clear that Jambudīpa and Laṅkādīpa are two different places. For example, if you take a look in the Dīpavaṃsa, the oldest surviving Sinhalese chronicle, you will find your fatuous theory contradicted in almost all of the work’s fifty-nine chapters, starting with the very opening sentence:
Dīpāgamanaṃ buddhassa dhātūnaṃ bodhiyāgamaṃ ... kittiyissaṃ.

“I shall reveal [the history of] the coming to the Island of the Buddha’s relics and the [sapling of the] Bodhi tree...”
If Laṅkā were Jambudīpa then there wouldn’t have been any ‘coming’ (āgamanaṃ), for the Buddha’s relics and the Bodhi tree would have been there all along.

Elsewhere in the chronicle it is reported that...

• Asoka had two coronations: an earlier one that made him King of Jambudīpa and a later one that made him King of Laṅkā.

• Sri Lanka was known in ancient times by five different names, but Jambudīpa is not one of them:
Ojadīpo, Varadīpo, Maṇḍadīpo’ ti vā ahu,
Laṅkādīpo ca paṇṇatti Tambapaṇṇi’ ti ñāyati.
• At the time of the Buddha’s parinibbāna, Prince Vijaya, son of Sīhabāhu and the first Ariyan [in the ethnic sense] to rule Sri Lanka, travelled from Jambudīpa to Laṅkādīpa.
Parinibbānasamaye sambuddho dīpaduttamo,
Sīhabāhussā’yaṃ putto Vijayo nāma khattiyo.

Laṅkādīpaṃ anuppatto jahevā Jambudīpakaṃ.
Byākāsī buddhaseṭṭho so rājā hessati khattiyo.
• Princess Kaccānā, daughter of the Sakyan Paṇḍu, travelled from Jambudīpa to Laṅkādīpa in order to preserve Vijaya’s dynasty.
Paṇḍusakkassā’yaṃ dhītā Kaccānā nāma khattiyā,
Vaṃsānurakkhanathāya Jambudīpā idhāgatā.
• Mahinda announces his intention to go back to Jambudīpa from Sri Lanka:
(Mahinda said to the king:) “In the first month of the summer, on the full moon , on the Uposatha day, we have come hither from Jambudīpa; we have dwelt on this most excellent mountain. During five months we have not left the Tissārāma nor the mountain; now we will go to Jambudīpa; permit it, O lord of charioteers.”
Tissārāma is another name for the Mahāmeghavana in Anuradhapura.

Etc., etc., etc.

In conclusion, if you want to resort to conspiracy theory to bolster your nationalist conceit, you’ll need to go much further back than the twilight days of the British Raj. To judge from your nation’s chronicles, it must have been the ancient Sinhalese themselves who fomented a plot to deny their island the honour of being the Buddha’s birthplace!

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Pseudobabble » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:00 am

This idea fails Occam's Razor, hard.
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

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rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:04 pm

Well,
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 am
The said chronicles make it abundantly clear that Jambudīpa and Laṅkādīpa are two different places.
I could explain in length hoping you'd understand.

However, I think its better if I can guide you to understand the problem yourself. Excuse me for having to answer a question with another question! I promise to re-visit your post once you have returned with some feedback.

Are you able to describe the story described in Atanatiya Sutta briefly? So I expect the individuals involved and a summary of the what takes place in a few sentences.

Thank you.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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Dhammanando
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:04 pm
I could explain in length hoping you'd understand.

However, I think its better if I can guide you to understand the problem yourself. Excuse me for having to answer a question with another question!
There’s really no need to apologise, for I didn’t ask you any question at all. I cited a Sinhalese chronicle to show the unfoundedness of your theory. I chose the oldest one, the Dīpavaṃsa, though in fact virtually any of your country’s chronicles would have sufficed, for they’re all full of stories about people journeying across the ocean from Jambudīpa to Laṅkādīpa and from Laṅkādīpa to Jambudīpa. So clearly your less geographically challenged ancestors considered these to be two different places separated by sea.
rajitha7 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:04 pm
Are you able to describe the story described in Atanatiya Sutta briefly? So I expect the individuals involved and a summary of the what takes place in a few sentences.
Ven. Ānandajoti’s English translation of the sutta can be found here, and Malalasekera's Dictionary of Pali Proper Names offers a fair summary of what takes place in it:
G.P. Malalasekera wrote: Āṭānāṭiya Sutta

The thirty-second sutta of the Dighanikāya, taught at the Gijjhakūṭa (D.iii.194 ff).

The Four Great Kings (Cattāro Mahārājāno) having set a guard over the four quarters, visited the Buddha. Having saluted him and sat down with hosts of other yakkhas, Vessavaṇa told the Buddha that the yakkhas did not, for the most part, believe in the Buddha for the reason that they did not find it pleasant or agreeable to abstain from the things which he declared to be evil — such as the taking of life, theft, etc. And in order that the Buddha’s disciples, haunting lonely and remote parts of the forest where the yakkhas dwelt, might find protection from them, Vessavaṇa suggested that the Buddha might learn the Āṭānāṭiya word-rune (rakkha). The Buddha agreeing, Vessavaṇa proceeded to recite it.

It opens with a salutation to the seven Buddhas, beginning with Vipassī. The remainder contains a list of the gods and other superhuman beings, the Four Great Kings heading the list; these last are described at some length; forty-one other gods are mentioned as a kind of appendix or afterthought, all mentioned one after another with no attempt at group division and without any details, in what are, apparently, mnemonic doggerels.

A part of the Mahāsamaya Sutta (sections 10‑20) looks very much like an improved and enlarged edition of this list of bare names.

The Buddha learnt the word-rune and taught it to the monks

The Āṭānāṭiya Sutta is now regarded as a Paritta, and its influence pervades a hundred million world systems (VibhA.430).

In Sri Lanka, for instance, it is recited with great fervour at the conclusion of the Paritta ceremonies, particularly in times of illness, in order to ward off evil spirits.

It is included in the list of Parittas found in the Milindapañha, p.151; on the importance of this sutta in the history of India, see Rhys Davids, Buddhist India, pp.219‑37.

DA.iii.969 gives a long description of the ritual to be followed when reciting the Āṭānāṭiya Paritta.
As for the individuals involved, there are dozens of them: past Buddhas, yakkhas, kumbhaṇḍas, gandhabbas; some named and some not. Who in particular would you like to know about?

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:31 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm
G.P. Malalasekera wrote: Āṭānāṭiya Sutta

The thirty-second sutta of the Dighanikāya, taught at the Gijjhakūṭa (D.iii.194 ff).

The Four Great Kings (Cattāro Mahārājāno) having set a guard over the four quarters, visited the Buddha. Having saluted him and sat down with hosts of other yakkhas, Vessavaṇa told the Buddha that the yakkhas did not, for the most part, believe in the Buddha for the reason that they did not find it pleasant or agreeable to abstain from the things which he declared to be evil — such as the taking of life, theft, etc. And in order that the Buddha’s disciples, haunting lonely and remote parts of the forest where the yakkhas dwelt, might find protection from them, Vessavaṇa suggested that the Buddha might learn the Āṭānāṭiya word-rune (rakkha). The Buddha agreeing, Vessavaṇa proceeded to recite it.
The "4 Great Kings" belonged to the areas shown here.

Image

A detailed explaination can be found here -> [More]
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:50 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 am
Dīpāgamanaṃ buddhassa dhātūnaṃ bodhiyāgamaṃ ... kittiyissaṃ.

“I shall reveal [the history of] the coming to the Island of the Buddha’s relics and the [sapling of the] Bodhi tree...”
If Laṅkā were Jambudīpa then there wouldn’t have been any ‘coming’ (āgamanaṃ), for the Buddha’s relics and the Bodhi tree would have been there all along.
The relics are taken from Jambudipa (Deva Area) to Lanka in the Yakka area. Whenever you see a "Lanka" reference in the chronicals - it means the capital of the Yakka area. This is where Vijaya supposedly landed and met Kuewni - the Queen of the Yakka area. King Devanampiyatissa ruled this area.
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:56 am
Sri Lanka was known in ancient times by five different names, but Jambudīpa is not one of them:
The Sri Lankan govt official records it indicates "Jambudipa" as one of the names.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

Trekmentor
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Trekmentor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:06 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammāsambuddhassa

Lord Buddha was not born in Sri Lanka.
"Micchādiṭṭhiṃ micchādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sammādiṭṭhiṃ sammādiṭṭhīti pajānāti. Sāssa hoti sammādiṭṭhi."

imPure Dhamma - A Lunatic's Quest to Ruin Buddha's True Teachings

TRobinson465
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by TRobinson465 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:41 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:31 pm
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:44 pm
G.P. Malalasekera wrote: Āṭānāṭiya Sutta

The thirty-second sutta of the Dighanikāya, taught at the Gijjhakūṭa (D.iii.194 ff).

The Four Great Kings (Cattāro Mahārājāno) having set a guard over the four quarters, visited the Buddha. Having saluted him and sat down with hosts of other yakkhas, Vessavaṇa told the Buddha that the yakkhas did not, for the most part, believe in the Buddha for the reason that they did not find it pleasant or agreeable to abstain from the things which he declared to be evil — such as the taking of life, theft, etc. And in order that the Buddha’s disciples, haunting lonely and remote parts of the forest where the yakkhas dwelt, might find protection from them, Vessavaṇa suggested that the Buddha might learn the Āṭānāṭiya word-rune (rakkha). The Buddha agreeing, Vessavaṇa proceeded to recite it.
The "4 Great Kings" belonged to the areas shown here.

Image

A detailed explaination can be found here -> [More]
so if ur born into the realm of the four great kings? your just born in sri lanka? how disappointing. so what are Tusita and Paranimmita Vasavattī? first world countries?
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:52 am

Trekmentor wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:06 am
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammāsambuddhassa

Lord Buddha was not born in Sri Lanka.
So elaborating some more would help is't it?
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:00 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:41 am
so if ur born into the realm of the four great kings? your just born in sri lanka?
There is no "realm". The "Deva" has been wrongly misinterpreted as a Deva realm. Although its not so.

There is a Deva realm and also a Deva clan/tribe. The Deva clan are just normal human beings.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:41 am
so what are Tusita and Paranimmita Vasavattī?
Tusita would be a Deva town.

Paranimmita Vasavattī is the 11th Deva relam . These not not human beings.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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