Jambudipa

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rajitha7
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Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm

Moderator note: Topic split so as not to derail the earlier one.
rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:17 pm

Also read this NOW -> http://qr.ae/TUGDBI <- why does this matter?

Atto is a Sinhala word as well. It means "individual". So one who sees phenomena as fruitful (atta) is an "atto".
Hi that link says Jambudvipa is in the bible, but the reference they use is not the bible. Can you please provide me with the page and line where Jambudvipa is referenced in the bible?
[/quote]

The Bible says something along these lines "The merchants who having go to Jambudvip in the Southern sea to fetch great and precious gems feel refreshed after hearing the siblime lore of the Buddha". The comment made before 1890 says its Ceylon. The comment was made before the Buddha history revised incorrectly around 1890.

This is another reference with the correct history.
"Seih-lan is situated in Southern India, and is a large island in the sea, on the south east ,coast,its circumference been about 1000 le (300 miles) having in the centre lofty mountains ;on the coast the land in low and marshy . The country is characterised by much rain and constant thunder. The hills and valleys are beautifully ornamented with flowers and trees of great variety and beauty, the cries of animals rejoicing together fill the air with gladness,and the landscape abounds with splendour. In the forests are many elephants and the native use them instead of draught oxen or horses. The people are all of the Buddhist religion ;it is said that Buddha was born here....

Ying-hwin-che-ke (General Account of the Encircling Ocean) written 4CE
And another.

Image
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:29 pm
but to a nineteenth-century Anglican cleric's commentary on the Bible. He seems to think that "Jambudipa" is the island now called Sri Lanka, but all other sources seem to point to it being a broader mythical area which includes modern India.
Jambudipa was part of the island now known as "Sri Lanka".

Read the English parts here -> http://panhinda.sirisaddharmaya.net/
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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Sam Vara
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:59 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm

The Bible says something along these lines "The merchants who having go to Jambudvip in the Southern sea to fetch great and precious gems feel refreshed after hearing the siblime lore of the Buddha".
With respect, I don't think the Buddha is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I think it is likely that someone is confusing the actual Bible with a 19th Century biblical commentary.
Jambudipa was part of the island now known as "Sri Lanka".
This might be a confusion between two uses of the same word. Warder says this:
In ancient times it was believed that there were four continents, India, called in Pali Jambudipo, being the southern continent bordered on the north by the Himalaya.
Similarly, the Wikipedia page makes no mention of a Sri Lankan Jambudipa, but sees it as mythological geography encompassing India. If the Sri Lankan hypothesis were more widely accepted, I would expect mention of it on Wikipedia or elsewhere.

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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:11 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:59 pm
rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm

The Bible says something along these lines "The merchants who having go to Jambudvip in the Southern sea to fetch great and precious gems feel refreshed after hearing the siblime lore of the Buddha".
With respect, I don't think the Buddha is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I think it is likely that someone is confusing the actual Bible with a 19th Century biblical commentary.
The Jambudipa reference is from the "Book of Proverbs" or a commentary on the Book of Proverbs it would seem. I haven't seen it personally. What is important is the date it was made.
Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:59 pm
rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm
Jambudipa was part of the island now known as "Sri Lanka".
This might be a confusion between two uses of the same word. Warder says this:
In ancient times it was believed that there were four continents, India, called in Pali Jambudipo, being the southern continent bordered on the north by the Himalaya.
Similarly, the Wikipedia page makes no mention of a Sri Lankan Jambudipa, but sees it as mythological geography encompassing India. If the Sri Lankan hypothesis were more widely accepted, I would expect mention of it on Wikipedia or elsewhere.
First of all, the present history is the one that was incorrectly revised AFTER 1890s. So layers upon layers of commentary would mention India, Nepal and a place of a "mythical" nature. A fine eye, some effort and a broad mind is needed to see through to the real history that existed BEFORE 1890.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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Sam Vara
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:47 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:11 pm
The Jambudipa reference is from the "Book of Proverbs" or a commentary on the Book of Proverbs it would seem. I haven't seen it personally.
If you mean this reference linked in your earlier post:
https://www.quora.com/Where-was-Buddha- ... srid=uKWkg

then it was by the Rev. S.C. Malan, who, as I said, was writing a commentary in England in 1887. Not the Bible, but a book about the Bible. He could well have heard that "Jambudipa" was modern Sri Lanka, but that doesn't mean that it was. He could be recording a mistaken or minority opinion, just the same as you could be.
First of all, the present history is the one that was incorrectly revised AFTER 1890s. So layers upon layers of commentary would mention India, Nepal and a place of a "mythical" nature.
So where is the commentary which opposes that?
A fine eye, some effort and a broad mind is needed to see through to the real history that existed BEFORE 1890.
Well, a finer eye than I have got, evidently. This looks like using a conspiracy theory to effect a crude kind of historical revisionism. If it's that easy, I might start building a case that the Buddha was born in Texas. Good luck with it, anyway!

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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:06 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:47 pm
rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:11 pm
The Jambudipa reference is from the "Book of Proverbs" or a commentary on the Book of Proverbs it would seem. I haven't seen it personally.
If you mean this reference linked in your earlier post:
https://www.quora.com/Where-was-Buddha- ... srid=uKWkg

He could well have heard that "Jambudipa" was modern Sri Lanka, but that doesn't mean that it was.
Rev. S.C. Malan is not the only one cited though.

Ying-hwin-che-ke (General Account of the Encircling Ocean) written 4CE and Sir Henry Charles who wrote Ceylon and the Cingalese. There are a plethora of other references too.

The Pali Tripitaka you learn Buddhism was written in the island - so are almost all Pali manuscripts. Almost all skeletal remains of the Buddha are preserved in the island too.

Its not a long shot as Texas. Its somewhat disingenuous to see it that way.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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cappuccino
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:33 pm

Another reference is from the Buddhist text Mahavamsa, where the emperor Ashoka's son Mahinda introduces himself to the Sri Lankan king Devanampiyatissa as from Jambudvipa, referring to what is now the Indian subcontinent.
“Life is anxiety”

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:39 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:33 pm
Another reference is from the Buddhist text Mahavamsa, where the emperor Ashoka's son Mahinda introduces himself to the Sri Lankan king Devanampiyatissa as from Jambudvipa, referring to what is now the Indian subcontinent.
People think "Dambadiva" (Sinhala) or Jambudipa (Pali) refers to the Indian sub-continent. This was AFTER the history was changed.

What people referred to as "Dambadiva" is shown above. Please read the passage from "Ceylon and the Cingalese" attached in the above post.

This one ->
Dambadiva (Jambudipa) about 50 miles east of Colombo
So when you read a reference in the Mahavamsa to Jambudipa, it refers to a part of the island. The area shown here.

Image
Last edited by rajitha7 on Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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budo
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by budo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:43 pm

You can't say something is in the bible if it's not in the bible. It's not in the book of proverbs, otherwise please provide me with a page and line.

Here is the book of proverbs https://www.biblestudytools.com/proverbs/

Please find for me the part where Jambudipa or the Buddha is mentioned.

edit: Here is a website that has over 20 editions of the bible, you can also search here for it

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

rajitha7
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:51 pm

budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:43 pm
You can't say something is in the bible if if it's not in the bible. It's not in the book of proverbs, otherwise please provide me with a page and line.
Its quite possibly in the notes made by Rev. S.C. Malan. The commentaries on the Book of Proverbs. What is important is the date it was made - not whether its the Bible or a commentary.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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budo
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by budo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:51 pm
budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:43 pm
You can't say something is in the bible if if it's not in the bible. It's not in the book of proverbs, otherwise please provide me with a page and line.
Its quite possibly in the notes made by Rev. S.C. Malan. The commentaries on the Book of Proverbs. What is important is the date it was made - not whether its the Bible or a commentary.
Ok so what does that have to do with anything? Anyone can make a commentary about anything. I can make a commentary about the Tipitaka. Also what is the commentary referring to? To which line and page?

The date is irrelevant, 1800s don't mean much since the events in the book of Proverbs take place almost 3000 years ago - https://biblehub.com/timeline/

Also yes it IS important whether it's the bible or not, because you can't go around saying something is in the bible if it actually isn't.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:57 pm

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:06 pm

Rev. S.C. Malan is not the only one cited though.

Ying-hwin-che-ke (General Account of the Encircling Ocean) written 4CE and Sir Henry Charles who wrote Ceylon and the Cingalese. There are a plethora of other references too.
Yes, it's quite possible that the term "Jambudipa" or similar terms were applied to what is now Sri Lanka. They were also applied to India, and to the whole region seen in mythical terms. (I think "Sir Henry Charles" is "Henry Charles Sirr", by the way...) The question is what inferences can be drawn from that.
Its not a long shot as Texas. Its somewhat disingenuous to see it that way.
What seems like a long shot is the apparent claim that Western historians should provide a truthful and reliable account of a region's history, and then, in the year 1890, start to systematically misrepresent things. I'm open-minded enough to countenance that such a thing could happen - it's logically possible - but what possible motive could they have? On the evidence currently presented, this seems more like some modern Sri Lankans engaging in some understandable but crude boosterism.

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Re: Jambudipa

Post by rajitha7 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:12 am

budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm
Ok so what does that have to do with anything? Anyone can make a commentary about anything.
So I think you have got somewhat confused. I am not using the Book of Proverbs as an authoritative source on Jambalaya. Book of Proverbs was presumably written at an unknown date and by an unreliably known Author.

The source I am using is far more authoritative than the Book of Proverbs. The author and the date it was made is very well known. The author is Rev. S.C. Malan, Vicar of Broadmeadows.
budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm
The date is irrelevant
The date is relevant here as it points to a time history BEFORE the authentic Buddha history was obfuscated.
Unsurpassed is the Lord’s way of teaching the Dhamma concerning one’s proper moral conduct. One should be honest and faithful, without deception, chatter, hinting or belittling, not always ready to add gain to gain, but with the sense-doors guarded, moderate in food, a promoter of peace, observant, active and strenuous in effort, a meditator, mindful, with proper conversation, steady-going, resolute and sensible, not hankering after sense pleasures, but mindful and prudent. This is the unsurpassed teaching concerning a person’s proper ethical conduct. - Sampasādanīya, Dīgha Nikāya 28

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Volovsky
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by Volovsky » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:12 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:39 pm
What people referred to as "Dambadiva" is shown above. Please read the passage from "Ceylon and the Cingalese" attached in the above post.

This one ->
Dambadiva (Jambudipa) about 50 miles east of Colombo
They also had Jetavana in Sri Lanka. As well as many Anuruddhas and other famous monks we know from suttas. These all are namesakes.
Last edited by Volovsky on Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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budo
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Re: Jambudipa

Post by budo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:16 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:12 am
budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm
Ok so what does that have to do with anything? Anyone can make a commentary about anything.
So I think you have got somewhat confused. I am not using the Book of Proverbs as an authoritative source on Jambalaya. Book of Proverbs was presumably written at an unknown date and by an unreliably known Author.

The source I am using is far more authoritative than the Book of Proverbs. The author and the date it was made is very well known. The author is Rev. S.C. Malan, Vicar of Broadmeadows.
budo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 pm
The date is irrelevant
The date is relevant here as it points to a time history BEFORE the authentic Buddha history was obfuscated.

Ok so terminology aside, your argument is that because this random book from 1800s (which that link you sourced calls the Bible) refers to Ceylon as Jambudwip, it must be true.. well no, it's not true at all. People make errors all the time at all ages, especially people coming from other religions who have no clue about Eastern religions.

Also that book and that author have no authority in regards to the old testament, as for Buddhism or eastern religions, he has no authority in those fields either.

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Re: Jambudipa

Post by WorldTraveller » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:18 am

rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:36 pm
Moderator note: Topic split so as not to derail the earlier one.
rajitha7 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:17 pm
WorldTraveller wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:28 am
Also read this NOW -> http://qr.ae/TUGDBI <- why does this matter?

Atto is a Sinhala word as well. It means "individual". So one who sees phenomena as fruitful (atta) is an "atto".
Hi that link says Jambudvipa is in the bible, but the reference they use is not the bible. Can you please provide me with the page and line where Jambudvipa is referenced in the bible?
I never posted this anywhere >>> Also read this NOW -> http://qr.ae/TUGDBI <- why does this matter?

Perhaps a mistake by the Moderator to paste Rajitha7's post under my name? Please correct it. Thanks.
“Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a canonical tradition, by logical reasoning, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think: ‘The ascetic is our guru.’”
- Kālāma-sutta

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