Understanding volitional actions

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Understanding volitional actions

Post by Bundokji » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am

The Buddha taught about Kamma, which is the law of volitional actions.

From a first person point of view, volitional actions appears to be the commander in chief. If there is a hierarchical structure of the human psyche, volition appears to be the top of the pyramid. Its akin to the perception that the head directs the body, not the opposite.

Why is that? Are there any suttas explain directly and clearly why volition is blind of its dependence?

Thanks :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

paul
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by paul » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
Its akin to the perception that the head directs the body, not the opposite.
This is not correct if the teaching is seen in a practical light, where body and mind exert equal influence, but in different ways.
Looking for a theoretical position in the suttas is not the right approach, as the overall substance of the teaching is practical and more important is the fact that the body exhibits impermanence in a more easily understandable form than mind, and this is amply shown in the Satipatthana suttta where the body is the basis of six exercises three of which are direct examples of impermanence of the body. The four foundations can be simplified into three, body, feeling, and mind (two foundations), with feeling constituting a connection between body and mind, but the body is the basis of focus for the other foundations.

"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts.”—SN 36.6 Thanissaro
Furthermore:
“… in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.”—-MN 119

Although the body is the basis of focus, the fourth foundation (mental objects) contains five categories useful primarily for keeping unskillful mind states at bay, with this result:
"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only.”

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1772
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by Bundokji » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:45 pm

paul wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm
This is not correct if the teaching is seen in a practical light, where body and mind exert equal influence, but in different ways.
Looking for a theoretical position in the suttas is not the right approach, as the overall substance of the teaching is practical and more important is the fact that the body exhibits impermanence in a more easily understandable form than mind, and this is amply shown in the Satipatthana suttta where the body is the basis of six exercises three of which are direct examples of impermanence of the body. The four foundations can be simplified into three, body, feeling, and mind (two foundations), with feeling constituting a connection between body and mind, but the body is the basis of focus for the other foundations.

"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts.”—SN 36.6 Thanissaro
Furthermore:
“… in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.”—-MN 119

Although the body is the basis of focus, the fourth foundation (mental objects) contains five categories useful primarily for keeping unskillful mind states at bay, with this result:
"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only.”
Thank you for your answer :anjali:

When i raised the question. The following is from Dhammawiki website:
The arahant, the liberated one, does not generate any more kamma. He continues to act and perform volitional actions, but without clinging. Hence his actions no longer constitute kamma. They don't leave any imprints upon the mind. They don't have the potency of ripening in the future to bring about rebirth. The activities of the arahants are called "Kriyas", not kammas. They are simple actions. They leave no trace on the mental continuum, just like the flight of birds across the sky.
https://dhammawiki.com/index.php/Kamma

What constitutes "without clinging"? Or to reverse the question: under what circumstances volitional actions leaves an imprint upon the mind?

Considering that the Arahant continues to perform volitional actions, then would it be wrong to conclude that the Arahant can see that volitional actions are dependently arising hence the belief in a doer (separate from the action) does not arise in him? or to put it differently, if one can see clearly (rather than thinking retrospectively) that volition is dependently arising, would that be the end of clinging?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:03 pm

Ill give some Sutta definitions of Kamma;
SN 35.145 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Kamma Sutta: Action

"Monks, I will teach you new & old kamma, the cessation of kamma, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma. Listen and pay close attention. I will speak.

"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.

"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? Whoever touches the release that comes from the cessation of bodily kamma, verbal kamma, & mental kamma: This is called the cessation of kamma.

"And what is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is called the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

"So, monks, I have taught you new & old kamma, the cessation of kamma, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma. Whatever a teacher should do — seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them — that have I done for you. Over there are the roots of trees; over there, empty dwellings. Practice jhana, monks. Don't be heedless. Don't later fall into regret. This is our message to you."
AN 6.63 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#part-5
Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative

"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play should be known. The diversity in kamma should be known. The result of kamma should be known. The cessation of kamma should be known. The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.

"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later [in this lifetime], and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns kamma in this way, the cause by which kamma comes into play in this way, the diversity of kamma in this way, the result of kamma in this way, the cessation of kamma in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of kamma.

"'Kamma should be known. The cause by which kamma comes into play... The diversity in kamma... The result of kamma... The cessation of kamma... The path of practice for the cessation of kamma should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.
AN 6.63 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#part-5
Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative

"'Perception should be known. The cause by which perception comes into play... The diversity in perception... The result of perception... The cessation of perception... The path of practice for the cessation of perception should be known.' Thus it has been said. In reference to what was it said?

"There are these six kinds of perception:[3] the perception of form, the perception of sound, the perception of aroma, the perception of flavor, the perception of tactile sensation, the perception of ideas.

"And what is the cause by which perception comes into play? Contact is the cause by which perception comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in perception? Perception with regard to forms is one thing, perception with regard to sounds is another, perception with regard to aromas is another, perception with regard to flavors is another, perception with regard to tactile sensations is another, perception with regard to ideas is another. This is called the diversity in perception.

"And what is the result of perception? Perception has expression as its result, I tell you. However a person perceives something, that is how he expresses it: 'I have this sort of perception.' This is called the result of perception.

"And what is the cessation of perception? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of perception; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the way leading to the cessation of perception.

"Now when a disciple of the noble ones discerns perception in this way, the cause by which perception comes into play in this way, the diversity of perception in this way, the result of perception in this way, the cessation of perception in this way, & the path of practice leading to the cessation of perception in this way, then he discerns this penetrative holy life as the cessation of perception.

"'Perception should be known. The cause by which perception comes into play... The diversity in perception... The result of perception... The cessation of perception... The path of practice for the cessation of perception should be known.' Thus it has been said, and in reference to this was it said.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3271
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by DooDoot » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:03 am

Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
The Buddha taught about Kamma, which is the law of volitional actions.
Yes, it appears this way. AN 6.63 says:
Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
:candle:
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
From a first person point of view, volitional actions appears to be the commander in chief.
Yes, this appears the subject of Dhp1, which is about kamma:
1. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.

2. Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .budd.html
:candle:
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
If there is a hierarchical structure of the human psyche, volition appears to be the top of the pyramid.
Yes, it appears this way. "Volition" is like a "cross-roads" at the "nama-rupa" link in Dependent Origination. Either volition loses the battle with ignorant-sankharas at nama-rupa or, other wise, volition defeats ignorant-sankharas at nama-rupa (as described in MN 19).
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
Its akin to the perception that the head directs the body, not the opposite. Why is that? Are there any suttas explain directly and clearly why volition is blind of its dependence?
Ignorance & asava (mental drives). Volition can be blinded by ignorance & defiled drives, as explained by the volition in 4th link of Dependent Origination.
And how do sensual, malicious, and cruel thoughts arise for a reason, not without reason?

The element of sensuality gives rise to sensual perceptions. Sensual perceptions give rise to sensual thoughts. Sensual thoughts give rise to sensual desires. Sensual desires give rise to sensual passions. Sensual passions give rise to searches for sensual pleasures. An uneducated ordinary person on a search for sensual pleasures behaves badly in three ways: by body, speech, and mind.

The element of malice gives rise to malicious perceptions. Malicious perceptions give rise to malicious thoughts. … malicious desires … malicious passions … malicious searches … An uneducated ordinary person on a malicious search behaves badly in three ways: by body, speech, and mind.

The element of cruelty gives rise to cruel perceptions. Cruel perceptions give rise to cruel thoughts. … cruel desires … cruel passions … cruel searches … An uneducated ordinary person on a cruel search behaves badly in three ways: by body, speech, and mind.

https://suttacentral.net/sn14.12/en/sujato

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3271
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by DooDoot » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:17 am

paul wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm
Bundokji wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:16 am
Its akin to the perception that the head directs the body, not the opposite.
This is not correct if the teaching is seen in a practical light, where body and mind exert equal influence, but in different ways.
Looking for a theoretical position in the suttas is not the right approach, as the overall substance of the teaching is practical and more important is the fact that the body exhibits impermanence in a more easily understandable form than mind, and this is amply shown in the Satipatthana suttta where the body is the basis of six exercises three of which are direct examples of impermanence of the body. The four foundations can be simplified into three, body, feeling, and mind (two foundations), with feeling constituting a connection between body and mind, but the body is the basis of focus for the other foundations.

"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts.”—SN 36.6 Thanissaro
Furthermore:
“… in whomever mindfulness immersed in the body is not developed, not pursued, Mara gains entry, Mara gains a foothold.”—-MN 119

Although the body is the basis of focus, the fourth foundation (mental objects) contains five categories useful primarily for keeping unskillful mind states at bay, with this result:
"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only.”
The body is earth, wind, fire & water. "Bodily feelings" appear to be "mental" rather than "physical". Personally, I think the Dhamma accords with Bundokji's intepretation, where perception & feeling are the mind conditioner (citta sankhara).

:alien:
rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:03 pm
Ill give some Sutta definitions of Kamma;
SN 35.145 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Kamma Sutta: Action

"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt (purāṇakammaṃ abhisaṅkhataṃ abhisañcetayitaṃ vedaniyaṃ daṭṭhabbaṃ). The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.

"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.

AN 6.63 https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... tml#part-5
Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative

"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.

"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later, and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.
Sure, its one thing to copy & paste translations from the internet. But what is meant by "old kamma" above? :shrug:

Also, what is meant by "diversity of kamma"? Is this "diversity of kamma": (i) old kamma; (ii) new (present) kamma; or (iii) (future) results of kamma? :shrug:
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:50 am, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20167
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:38 am

Greetings,

:geek:

I'm going to move this topic out of Discovering Theravada and into General Theravada, because it doesn't require each and every post to be approved by moderators, in light of the "advanced" question asked.

Thanks.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

rightviewftw
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:26 am

Its akin to the perception that the head directs the body, not the opposite.

Why is that?
As i understand it;
"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect.
When there is craving for feeling, there can be desire for fabrication of; the Eye, Intellect, Body, Ear, Nose, Tongue. What is fabricated is intended
"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.
which are intended as a requisite condition for arising of contact at the sense bases, which is a requisite condition feeling
"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.
The seven obsessions are: the obsession of sensual passion, the obsession of resistance, the obsession of views, the obsession of uncertainty, the obsession of conceit, the obsession of passion for becoming, and the obsession of ignorance. See AN 7.12.
[the Blessed One said,] "What one intends, what one arranges, and what one obsesses about: This is a support for the stationing of consciousness. There being a support, there is a landing [or: an establishing] of consciousness. When that consciousness lands and grows, there is the production of renewed becoming in the future.
Thus one's obsessions dictate one's intentions and actions which constitute new kamma;
"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.
"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later [in this lifetime], and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.
"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.
"When, for a monk, the obsession of sensual passion has been abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising; when, for him, the obsession of resistance... the obsession of views... the obsession of uncertainty... the obsession of conceit... the obsession of passion for becoming... the obsession of ignorance has been abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising: this is called a monk who has cut through craving, has turned away from the fetter, and — by rightly breaking through conceit — has put an end to suffering & stress."
related sutta;
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3271
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by DooDoot » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:05 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:26 am
When there is craving for feeling, there can be desire for fabrication of; the Eye, Intellect, Body, Ear, Nose, Tongue. What is fabricated is intended.... which are intended as a requisite condition for arising of contact at the sense bases, which is a requisite condition feeling
Excellent answer Rightviewftw; particularly the discussion of the anusaya (obsessions/tendencies). Up until today I personally held a similar view of this sutta. However, have a close examination today, it seems the "old kamma" Pali of "abhisaṅkhataṃ" and "abhisañcetayitaṃ" refers to what happened in the past (rather than what can happen in the future) given, according to the dictionaries, these words are "past particles" of "abhisankharoti" and "abhisañceteti". "Abhisankharoti" appears most relevantly discussed in SN 22.79; about how sankhara aggregates constructs ideas about things; particularly the idea of "self".

While I personally agree with the sentiment of your answer, I am now personally inclined to give the matter more introspection & thought; particularly using SN 12.37, which begins with a teaching of not-self. I am inclined to view every translation I have read (by Thanissaro, Bodhi, Sujato and Buddhadasa) as unsatisfactory.

I will ponder the teaching further but my current impression is the translation might be as follows:
"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is/ought to be viewed as old kamma; when the eye was [previously] capable of being [ignorantly] fabricated & willed [via Dependent Origination into an object of self-view] and is [currently] capable of being felt/experienced.
In other words, based on the realisation of not-self in SN 12.37; the eye, etc, are no longer means of stirring up new kamma; unless there is ignorance to stir up new kamma. So past/old kamma was the past brewing up of Dependent Origination, as described in SN 12.37
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:26 am
"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause (nidānasambhava) by which kamma comes into play.
I think "cause" above is a poor translation. Sujato & Bodhi translation as "source" and "source-&-origin". Buddhadasa translated as "birthplace". Personally, I prefer "playground". ;)
rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:26 am
And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.
Since contact appears to be the nidānasambhava of all kamma (old, new and future); do you think the "diversity" and "results" of kamma refer to a future life? :shrug: Since AN 6.63 mentions the "diversity" in kamma before the future results; are we sure the "diversity" refers to the "future"? :shrug:
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:58 am, edited 8 times in total.

James Tan
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by James Tan » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:23 am

paul wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:39 pm
Although the body is the basis of focus, the fourth foundation (mental objects?)
Hi Paul , does the fourth foundation ie the dhamma (/ mental objects) here refers to ,
feeling perception volition ? Or something else ?
:reading:

paul
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 11:27 pm
Location: Cambodia

Re: Understanding volitional actions

Post by paul » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:57 am

James Tan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:23 am
does the fourth foundation ie the dhamma (/ mental objects) here refers to , feeling perception volition ? Or something else ?
The application of the fourth foundation allows the disciple to escape the second arrow:
"he knows the fetters (samyojana, q.v.) [ .], knows how they arise, how they are overcome, and how in future they do no more arise. He knows whether one of the seven factors of enlightenment (bojjhanga, q.v.) is present in him or not, knows how it arises, and how it comes to full development." ---Buddhist Dictionary
So it necessitates not passivity, but volition allowing action.

"As he is touched by that painful feeling, he is not resistant. No resistance-obsession with regard to that painful feeling obsesses him. Touched by that painful feeling, he does not delight in sensual pleasure. Why is that? Because the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns an escape from painful feeling aside from sensual pleasure. As he is not delighting in sensual pleasure, no passion-obsession with regard to that feeling of pleasure obsesses him. He discerns, as it actually is present, the origination, passing away, allure, drawback, and escape from that feeling. “—SN 36. 6

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SkillfulA and 85 guests