In which Jhana do you experience the following concentration?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
SarathW
Posts: 10338
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

In which Jhana do you experience the following concentration?

Post by SarathW » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:56 am

From DN 33:

Other three species of concentration:—concentrative insight into ‘emptiness,’ ‘signlessness,’ ‘end of baneful longing.’

https://suttacentral.net/dn33/en/tw-caf_rhysdavids

In which Jhana do you experience the above concentration?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 2184
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: In which Jhana do you experience the following concentration?

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:36 pm

cessation of perception and feeling
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .html#fn-3
"When a monk has emerged from the cessation of perception & feeling, three contacts make contact: contact with emptiness, contact with the signless, & contact with the undirected [3]."
...
Note;
3.
Emptiness, the signless, & the undirected are names for a state of concentration that lies on the threshold of Unbinding. They differ only in how they are approached. According to the commentary, they color one's first apprehension of Unbinding: a meditator who has been focusing on the theme of inconstancy will first apprehend Unbinding as signless; one who has been focusing on the theme of stress will first apprehend it as undirected; one who has been focusing on the theme of not-self will first apprehend it as emptiness.
As i understand it the referrent for the treshold of Unbinding is that it is beyond the treshold of the World, beyond the the made states, thus referring to this;
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .html#fn-2
...There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.116/en/sujato
Whatever in the world through which you perceive the world and conceive the world

is called the world in the training of the noble one.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
"Insofar as it disintegrates,[2] monk, it is called the 'world.'
Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

"The ear disintegrates. Sounds disintegrate...

"The nose disintegrates. Aromas disintegrate...

"The tongue disintegrates. Tastes disintegrate...

"The body disintegrates. Tactile sensations disintegrate...

"The intellect disintegrates. Ideas disintegrate. Consciousness at the intellect consciousness disintegrates. Contact at the intellect disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

"Insofar as it disintegrates, it is called the 'world.'"
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.116/en/sujato
But I also say there’s no making an end of suffering without reaching the end of the world.’
Thus when there is no "World" there is no perception or feeling, no eye, no intellect, no sense bases, no contact, no namarupa, no consciousness
There is the case where a monk, with the complete transcending of the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, enters & remains in the cessation of perception & feeling. This is another pleasure more extreme & refined than that. Now it's possible, Ananda, that some wanderers of other persuasions might say, 'Gotama the contemplative speaks of the cessation of perception & feeling and yet describes it as pleasure. What is this? How can this be?' When they say that, they are to be told, 'It's not the case, friends, that the Blessed One describes only pleasant feeling as included under pleasure. Wherever pleasure is found, in whatever terms, the Blessed One describes it as pleasure.'"

santa100
Posts: 3132
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: In which Jhana do you experience the following concentration?

Post by santa100 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:58 pm

It's probably not locked to any particular Jhana level per se 'cuz it's a criteria belonging to what's called strong insight concentration/BalavaVipassanaSamadhi. Ven. Bodhi's note from "Connected Discourses":
Suññata sam›dhi, animitta sam›dhi, appa˚ihita sam›dhi. Spk gives no explanation of these terms. The three are mentioned as a set at DN III 219,21–22, again without explanation, but Sv III 1003–4 comments on them thus: One who, at the stage of advanced insight, contemplates things as nonself, acquires the emptiness concentration on arriving at the path and fruit (because he has seen things as empty of self); one who contemplates things as impermanent acquires the signless concentration (because he has seen through the “sign of permanence”); one who contemplates things as suffering acquires the undirected concentration (because he has no leaning to things seen as painful). See too the discussion of the “triple gateway to liberation” at Vism 657–59 (Ppn 21:66–73). On animitta cetosam›dhi, see n. 280 above.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Johnnymac, paul, xabir and 87 guests