chownah wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:37 am
DO can be posited to function whether the world is deterministic or not.
To me, intention strongly implies a non-deterministic world....although we could say that the arising of intention can be determined by previous conditions it does not follow that saying this necessitates that the world be deterministic in that saying that could just be wrong......
If the world is non-deterministic then DO just keeps on happening.....it doesn't really matter for the functioning of DO whether the world is deterministic or not.
Perhaps you are really trying to discuss whether DO is a determinsitic system rather than asking whether DO is the same as the world being deterministic which I think is usually what is meant by "determinism".
I fail to understand how DO would function whether the world is deterministic or not. If you say DO would work regardless if we believe in a deterministic world or not, then i would agree.
Intention is linked to knowledge. Intentional actions are the actions we knowingly perform through thoughts, speech and body. DO claims ignorance
(which has to do with knowledge) to be the root cause of suffering. Determinism claims ignorance of the conditions (or gaps in our knowledge) to be the reason behind the delusion of free will.
When i read Dr. David.s input on the other thread, i thought the difference between the two is clear, but when i internally began to formulate a clear answer of the difference between the two, i found it not as easy as i thought it would be.
Maybe the meaning (or the focus) of each law is different as you indiccated. Maybe determinism is trying to explain the world in an objective way, while dependent origination is an explanation of a world where suffering is arising. Also according to DO as i understand it, the world is not separate from those who experience it, and while this does not necessarily contradict with determinism, it is not usually emphasized.
Most of worldly teachings (including determinism) seem to be concerned with an objective explanation of the world. Their view of objectivity is by imagining if their theories would work whether they exist or not, and in that sense, their views are mind-independent and therefore accurate and true. On the other hand, DO seem to focus on the role of our subjectivity in shaping the world we live in, a world in which the individual is an integral part of.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.