Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4487
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:14 pm

Could members commenting here please be careful to avoid ad hominem attacks and comments on the general style or stance of fellow members? They don't add anything to the debate and are liable to escalate.

Thanks.

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:51 pm
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
I just dont see evidence that sex b4 marriage always breaks the third precept....
See. You are at it again. Engaged in careless speech. :|
I would be lying if I said I did see evidence.

TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
U think everything is an insult cuz u think too highly of yourself.
Oh dear. You wished to be "very careful" with kamma but rejected MN 130 and continue to post unsubstantiated allegations. When you are corrected by another; you continue to defend your rebelliousness. Yet you wish to declare you are an expert on kamma. Your posts follow the same manner of this topic, where Sujato is accused of all manner of unsubstantiated allegations. The Buddha did not say in the suttas that ordinary misfortunes are due to past life kamma. When a mother or father lost a child, the Buddha did not tell them it was due to their past life kamma
I literally just said I was talking about being careful to criticize monks. I dont reject MN130. I just interpret it different than u. And unlike u I dont care how other ppl interpret things. So I dont believe in "correcting" ppl cuz I dont beleive I am 100% correct on everything anyways. I think certain views are incorrect and I just share my comments and let them pass. U basically just ignored most of what I said and are just putting words in my mouth. I did not make unsubstantiated allegations against any1. I shared my thoughts on what I think bhante sujato did and provided an explanation. It may be right. It may not be right. But I dont care , I'm sharing my thoughts. Not everything is about being right.

Also u seem extremely hostile to me and are escalating this rapidly. I dont want there to be any bad blood between us that will carry on for future lives. While we do clash at times ur input is sometimes helpful. So plz accept my apology if I have unfairly harmed u sometime in the past.

Just keep in mind that not everyone here is here to go around correcting other ppls views to "true" buddhism. While I and many ppl do this at times. Not every post has this intention. For some they just want to share their thoughts or hear other perspectives or learn. I apologize if I was careless and came off as insulting or unintentionally seemed like I was calling u a heretic or whatever else u think i was doing. Idk what I did but it certainly seems to have had a large impact on u. I hope u will forgive me and we can move on with our lives in peace.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
cjmacie
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:49 am

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by cjmacie » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:24 am

Bundokji wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:42 am
cjmacie wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:18 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:26 pm
...Once the personal is transcended and someone becomes an arahant, kamma becomes inoperative....
The mind (in it's intentional action) of an arahant does not generate further kamma, but the body, living circumstances, etc. of an arahant is still subject to the workings (results) of previous performed kamma. At least according to Theravada interpretation.
I was thinking about the same issue. The results of previous performed Kamma are ineffective (in terms of producing suffering) for someone who is free from clinging, so for all the practical reasons, it not inaccurate to describe it as inoperative in my opinion.
"Inoperative" as an unqualified generalization is questionable.

Qualified as referring to the quality of mental process in the released mind -- yes further kamma is not generated; actions/intentions are just "functional" (to use abhidhamma terminology).

On the other hand, the external circumstances of the arahant's life are still subject to the results of previous kamma (actions/intentions). Such kamma (not generated by the arahant after release) is still operative. Examples are found in the Suttanta, where individuals, in spite of achieving unbinding, are affected (e.g. bodily, as in accidental death) as result of earlier (in this or other recurrence aka "rebirth"). Note the unbound mind of the individual in such events does not "suffer", is not moved to react, which would incur further results / kamma.

... as I understand it...

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Bundokji » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:43 am

cjmacie wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:24 am
"Inoperative" as an unqualified generalization is questionable.

Qualified as referring to the quality of mental process in the released mind -- yes further kamma is not generated; actions/intentions are just "functional" (to use abhidhamma terminology).

On the other hand, the external circumstances of the arahant's life are still subject to the results of previous kamma (actions/intentions). Such kamma (not generated by the arahant after release) is still operative. Examples are found in the Suttanta, where individuals, in spite of achieving unbinding, are affected (e.g. bodily, as in accidental death) as result of earlier (in this or other recurrence aka "rebirth"). Note the unbound mind of the individual in such events does not "suffer", is not moved to react, which would incur further results / kamma.

... as I understand it...
Your input made me think of few things:

1- If experiencing the external results of past Kamma is a necessity, then enlightenment would be impossible until all the external circumstance are experienced directly by the same individual. The Arahant, however, by definition is experiencing his last birth. While the path to end suffering includes purification of the mind, i remember Ajahn Chah saying that believing that one needs to purify all of his past Kamma in order to become free is a wrong view.

2- The above might also give the impression that each action is one separate unit which has fruits of its own. But why it is not akin to a bot where each action is added to another mix of ingredients affecting it slightly. To claim that an individual is experiencing a certain ingredient at a certain moment might not be entirely accurate.
Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good.
It is also worth contemplating in my opinion if there is still a water bot in the case of an Arahant. I don't remember which sutta was it, but the wise no longer accumulate.

3- There is also the story of one of the Buddha's disciple (Aṅgulimāla) who murdered a lot of people and who became an Arahant. Did he experience the fruits of his past actions after his enlightenment and before his death?

By the way, the above do not go against your input, but an attempt to expand on it.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3154
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:23 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I would be lying if I said I did see evidence.
The precept refers to girls under the protection of their parents. DN 31 says parents have a duty to arrange the marriage of their children. 1 + 1 = 2. Does the Buddha have to spoon feed?
64. Though all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he no more comprehends the Truth than a spoon tastes the flavor of the soup.

65. Though only for a moment a discerning person associates with a wise man, quickly he comprehends the Truth, just as the tongue tastes the flavor of the soup.

Dhammapada
:candle:

TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
I dont reject MN130. I just interpret it different than u.
Since when is a statement saying: "Attachment they look upon with fear.... through non-attachment they are liberated" subject to "interpretation"? Its appears to be a very straightforward statement.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I dont beleive I am 100% correct on everything anyways....Not everything is about being right.
Right View is the 1st factor of the path. I think Buddhists should care about having Correct or Right View. The Noble Eightfold Path has 8 factors, in which each of them is about being "right".
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
Also u seem extremely hostile to me and are escalating this rapidly.
I was called an "atheist"; as though it is wrong to not believe in Brahma or God.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
.I dont want there to be any bad blood between us that will carry on for future lives.
What future lives? :roll: What self? What selves? What "us"? What? :shrug:
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
While we do clash at times ur input is sometimes helpful.
In my opinion, "everything" I post is helpful.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
So plz accept my apology if I have unfairly harmed u sometime in the past.
If you believe you have engaged in harmful behviour, I cannot help. I am not Brahma, God or Jesus that forgives sins. This thread is about kamma. Harmful actions follow the law of kamma. It appears only the Noble Eightfold can end the results of kamma. It appears this is what the Lord Buddha taught. Allow me to kindly quote (again):
"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech & intellect.

"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:candle:
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I apologize if I was careless and came off as insulting or unintentionally seemed like I was calling u a heretic or whatever else u think i was doing.
I was called an "atheist". I thought it insulted this chatsite, which is called "Dhamma Wheel" rather than "Brahma Wheel". My only advice is to not create kamma, i.e., actions that result in clinging to those actions and their results. The Lord Buddha said he was the Noble Friend (Kalyanamitta) who taught the Noble Eight Path with Eight Right Factors that ends kamma. Hypersensitivity & apologising about unknown causes & effects won't end kamma.

:smile:
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:37 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:23 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I would be lying if I said I did see evidence.
The precept refers to girls under the protection of their parents. DN 31 says parents have a duty to arrange the marriage of their children. 1 + 1 = 2. Does the Buddha have to spoon feed?
64. Though all his life a fool associates with a wise man, he no more comprehends the Truth than a spoon tastes the flavor of the soup.

65. Though only for a moment a discerning person associates with a wise man, quickly he comprehends the Truth, just as the tongue tastes the flavor of the soup.

Dhammapada
:candle:

TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
I dont reject MN130. I just interpret it different than u.
Since when is a statement saying: "Attachment they look upon with fear.... through non-attachment they are liberated" subject to "interpretation"? Its appears to be a very straightforward statement.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I dont beleive I am 100% correct on everything anyways....Not everything is about being right.
Right View is the 1st factor of the path. I think Buddhists should care about having Correct or Right View. The Noble Eightfold Path has 8 factors, in which each of them is about being "right".
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
Also u seem extremely hostile to me and are escalating this rapidly.
I was called an "atheist"; as though it is wrong to not believe in Brahma or God.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
.I dont want there to be any bad blood between us that will carry on for future lives.
What future lives? :roll: What self? What selves? What "us"? What? :shrug:
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
While we do clash at times ur input is sometimes helpful.
In my opinion, "everything" I post is helpful.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
So plz accept my apology if I have unfairly harmed u sometime in the past.
If you believe you have engaged in harmful behviour, I cannot help you. I am not Brahma, God or Jesus that forgives sins. This thread is about kamma. Harmful actions follow the law of kamma. It appears only the Noble Eightfold can end the results of kamma. It appears this is what the Lord Buddha taught. Allow me to kindly quote (again):
"Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech & intellect.

"And what is the cause by which kamma comes into play? Contact is the cause by which kamma comes into play.

"And what is the diversity in kamma? There is kamma to be experienced in hell, kamma to be experienced in the realm of common animals, kamma to be experienced in the realm of the hungry shades, kamma to be experienced in the human world, kamma to be experienced in the world of the devas. This is called the diversity in kamma.

"And what is the result of kamma? The result of kamma is of three sorts, I tell you: that which arises right here & now, that which arises later and that which arises following that. This is called the result of kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? From the cessation of contact is the cessation of kamma; and just this noble eightfold path — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration — is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:candle:
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 pm
I apologize if I was careless and came off as insulting or unintentionally seemed like I was calling u a heretic or whatever else u think i was doing.
I was called an "atheist". I thought it insulted this chatsite, which is called "Dhamma Wheel" rather than "Brahma Wheel". My only advice is to not create kamma, i.e., actions that result in clinging to those actions and their results. The Lord Buddha said he was the Noble Friend (Kalyanamitta) who taught the Noble Eight Path with Eight Right Factors that ends kamma. Hypersensitivity & apologising about unknown causes & effects won't end kamma.

:smile:
Well. Can't say i didn't try.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3154
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:41 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:37 am
Well. Can't say i didn't try.
Just let it go (since it is not important) rather than engage in wrong effort. The advice I offered was Right. Your efforts are not the path to end suffering. To imagine (without evidence) you have harmed another and then try to apologise is not right effort, in my interpretation. "Kamma" is "clinging". :smile:
"And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions (clinging)? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the other world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously arisen beings; there are contemplatives & brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the other after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions.

MN 117
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:23 am
...
The precept refers to girls under the protection of their parents. DN 31 says parents have a duty to arrange the marriage of their children. 1 + 1 = 2. Does the Buddha have to spoon feed?
we've been over this so many times. i cant believe you are actually still clinging to that.


Right View is the 1st factor of the path. I think Buddhists should care about having Correct or Right View. The Noble Eightfold Path has 8 factors, in which each of them is about being "right".
I dont think I, you, or anyone here is right about everything.

I was called an "atheist"; as though it is wrong to not believe in Brahma or God.
U know there was literally a thread called "athiestic Buddhism" directed at you. and u didnt have a problem with that. so i thought it was the proper term.
In my opinion, "everything" I post is helpful.
I think you need to revisit the letting go of the ego doctrine.

So plz accept my apology if I have unfairly harmed u sometime in the past.
If you believe you have engaged in harmful behviour, I cannot help. I am not Brahma, God or Jesus that forgives sins. This thread is about kamma. Harmful actions follow the law of kamma. It appears only the Noble Eightfold can end the results of kamma. It appears this is what the Lord Buddha taught.

I see you are not a fan of the Buddhas teachings on forgiveness either.
To imagine (without evidence) you have harmed another and then try to apologise is not right effort, in my interpretation. "Kamma" is "clinging". :smile:
So what, you're not angry at all? you're just naturally like this?
Last edited by TRobinson465 on Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 3154
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by DooDoot » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:54 am

TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
i cant believe you are actually still clinging to that.
Having right view is not clinging in Buddhism.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
I dont think I, you, or anyone here is right about everything.
For the above statement to be true, it must be right, which would be a contradiction. Regardless, there is no evidence for the above.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
U know there was literally a thread called "athiestic Buddhism" directed at you. and u didnt have a problem with that. so i thought it was the proper term.
The proper term appears to be "adhamma" and others. You can start a new thread on this as a topic, namely, what is the right term for a "non-belief". The three terms are found in MN 60.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
I think you need to revisit the letting go of the ego doctrine.
Writing 100% posts that accord to Dhamma is not ego.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
So what, you're not angry at all? you're just naturally like this?
I try to post with enjoyment or Dhamma Delight or Free Mind. :smile:
TRobinson465 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:48 am
I see you are not a fan of the Buddhas teachings on forgiveness either.
Jesus or Buddha? Which teachings? Please quote them? Thanks :thanks:
Last edited by DooDoot on Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
Never ordained... not an anonymous-online-bhikkhu or ex-bhikkhu...

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20149
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:54 am

Greetings TR & DooDoot,

If there's any further need for conversation on this matter, please consider creating a new topic or conducting it via private correspondence.

Many thanks.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Bundokji
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:57 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Bundokji » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:28 am

Bundokji wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:43 am
3- There is also the story of one of the Buddha's disciple (Aṅgulimāla) who murdered a lot of people and who became an Arahant. Did he experience the fruits of his past actions after his enlightenment and before his death?
When i posted the above, i was thinking that Aṅgulimāla did not experience the fruits of his misdeeds before his death until i read the following:
The Buddha fearlessly confronted the robber and helped him to see the error of his ways. Then, in the face of tremendous opposition from the population, he allowed Angulimala to join the Sangha, and in due time he became an awakened Arahant. The karma of his previous deeds still followed him, however, and he was later stoned in the street by an angry mob. Coming into the teacher's presence "with blood running from his cut head, with his bowl broken, and with his outer robe torn," the Buddha simply said, "Bear it! brahman, Bear it! You are experiencing here and now the result of [your] deeds..."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

auto
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by auto » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:46 am

https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn ... .than.html
"Yes, it is, great king. But first, with regard to that, I will ask you a counter-question. Answer however you please. Suppose there were a man of yours: your slave, your workman, rising in the morning before you, going to bed in the evening only after you, doing whatever you order, always acting to please you, speaking politely to you, always watching for the look on your face. The thought would occur to him: 'Isn't it amazing? Isn't it astounding? — the destination, the results, of meritorious deeds.
see, if you woke up and your mom has made food to eat for you, it is because of past merit you have done.

TV landing on your head is because of past actions, merit, destination.

User avatar
robertk
Posts: 2936
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 am

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by robertk » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:30 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:28 am
Bundokji wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:43 am
3-?
:
The Buddha fearlessly confronted the robber and helped him to see the error of his ways. Then, in the face of tremendous opposition from the population, he allowed Angulimala to join the Sangha, and in due time he became an awakened Arahant. The karma of his previous deeds still followed him, however, and he was later stoned in the street by an angry mob. Coming into the teacher's presence "with blood running from his cut head, with his bowl broken, and with his outer robe torn," the Buddha simply said, "Bear it! brahman, Bear it! You are experiencing here and now the result of [your] deeds..."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html
A rather unfortunate translation, as he was hit accidently, no angry mob involved.

TRobinson465
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu May 12, 2016 5:29 pm
Location: United States

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Bundokji wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:28 am
Bundokji wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:43 am
3- There is also the story of one of the Buddha's disciple (Aṅgulimāla) who murdered a lot of people and who became an Arahant. Did he experience the fruits of his past actions after his enlightenment and before his death?
When i posted the above, i was thinking that Aṅgulimāla did not experience the fruits of his misdeeds before his death until i read the following:
The Buddha fearlessly confronted the robber and helped him to see the error of his ways. Then, in the face of tremendous opposition from the population, he allowed Angulimala to join the Sangha, and in due time he became an awakened Arahant. The karma of his previous deeds still followed him, however, and he was later stoned in the street by an angry mob. Coming into the teacher's presence "with blood running from his cut head, with his bowl broken, and with his outer robe torn," the Buddha simply said, "Bear it! brahman, Bear it! You are experiencing here and now the result of [your] deeds..."
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .olen.html
I beleive he didn't experience the kamma of killing hundreds of ppl fully because he became an arahant. So he could not take rebirth and the remaining kamma became ahosikamma (kamma that went away). So he only experienced the fruits of his killing partially in the here and now. I read this in a secondary source tho.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

User avatar
StormBorn
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by StormBorn » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:32 am

diamind wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:24 pm
He also says ... birth defects are not created by karma.
The cases discussed in Dr. Ian Stevenson's Birthmarks Article might suggest otherwise. In the below mentioned "Case 1", one might suggest the possibility of the shotgun wound due to a past kamma, and then the hypopigmented macule on chest in this life was due to the remainder (after being shot) of that past kamma.

Case 1
This life: Hypopigmented macule on chest of an Indian youth who, as a child, said he remembered the life of a man, Maha Ram, who was killed with a shotgun fired at close range.
Image

Past life: The circles show the principal shotgun wounds on Maha Ram, for comparison with Figure 1. [This drawing is from the autopsy report of the deceased.]
Image
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kamui, paul, Yahoo [Bot] and 43 guests