Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

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Sam Vara
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:17 am

Polar Bear wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:43 pm
I think the Buddha would argue against the view that our decisions now are determined by what was done in the past. And he’d argue against such a view not by providing some metaphysical argument, but by showing that such a view is unhelpful to hold for someone who wants to be virtuous, self controlled, and to end suffering. I think the Buddha thought that to put in the work to become liberated, one needs to see oneself as having a high degree of autonomy, or free will, and to assume a very high degree of personal responsibility.
Agreed. It also seemed to be a matter of common sense for him, requiring little argumentative reasoning to prove:
Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics: ‘What do you think, reverends? At a time of intense exertion and striving do you experience painful, intense, severe, acute feelings due to overexertion? Whereas at a time without intense exertion and striving do you not experience painful, intense, severe, acute feelings due to overexertion?’ ‘Reverend Gotama, at a time of intense exertion we experience painful, intense feelings due to overexertion, not without intense exertion.’

‘So it seems that only at a time of intense exertion do you experience painful, intense feelings due to overexertion, not without intense exertion. In that case, it’s not appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare: “Everything this individual experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …”
https://suttacentral.net/mn101/en/sujato

James Tan
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by James Tan » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:26 am

chownah wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:48 am
James Tan wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:38 am
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:55 am



Well, not really. The methods employed in modern academic scholarship of the early Buddhist texts are adapted from those used in biblical "Higher Criticism". This is something that didn't get started until the European Enlightenment(s) and has nothing remotely like it in traditional/monastic Buddhist scholarship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_criticism
Is there such a thing as European Enlightenment ?
"Age of Enlightenment"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
chownah
I see , that seems nothing to do with anuttara-samyak-sambodhi .
:reading:

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AgarikaJ
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by AgarikaJ » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:57 am

StormBorn wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:16 pm
Obviously every action creates a reaction. But surely one can't say specifically, "This will/will not cause that" or "That caused/didn't cause this" unless one has "Recollection of Past Lives" or "Clairvoyance".
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:34 pm
Middle way guys. Just because taking kamma to an extreme to the point where u are inactive doesnt mean u throw out the whole thing. The key is issue is "everything" is caused by kamma is a wrong view.
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:44 pm
"Everything" is caused by kamma -- wrong view.
"Nothing" is caused by kamma -- also wrong view.
Correct view: some by kamma, some by the other niyamas, weather, biology, etc.
Polar Bear wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:43 pm
I think the Buddha would argue against the view that our decisions now are determined by what was done in the past. And he’d argue against such a view not by providing some metaphysical argument, but by showing that such a view is unhelpful to hold for someone who wants to be virtuous, self controlled, and to end suffering. I think the Buddha thought that to put in the work to become liberated, one needs to see oneself as having a high degree of autonomy, or free will, and to assume a very high degree of personal responsibility.
I very much agree with all four of you. Very good points made, about Kamma, Self-Determination and also Recollection of Past Lives and Clairvoyance.

Certainly something I will think about for a while to get a better understanding.
The teaching is a lake with shores of ethics, unclouded, praised by the fine to the good.
There the knowledgeable go to bathe, and cross to the far shore without getting wet.
[SN 7.21]

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:33 am

Bundokji wrote: This might be true when it comes to Buddhist scholarship (i don't know), but do you think the Buddha took context into consideration when he taught the dhamma?
Certainly. Starting, it seems, with the third sermon: a talk on fire to fire worshipers.

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 am

James Tan wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:26 am
I see , that seems nothing to do with anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.
I would be inclined to put it the other way round and say that Samyaksambodhi has nothing to do with Enlightenment. :smile:

What I mean by this is, firstly, that Enlightenment was being used as a term for a certain period in European intellectual history long before anyone used it to translate Bodhi, and secondly, that it's not really a very good translation. Awakening would be more accurate.

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DooDoot
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by DooDoot » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:04 am

diamind wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:53 am
Please offer up something.
I have quoted may suttas. Its you that's not offering anything. In my opinion, your ideas were completely defeated in the debate here.
DNS wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:42 pm
Translation: If it doesn't fit your pre-conceived view, it's a later text. If it fits your pre-conceived view, it's an EBT (early Buddhist text).
No. Its unrelated to any personal views. Its goes against the other suttas about kamma; as I explained.
StormBorn wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:53 pm
EBT wise, it’s awfully at stake to say MN 135 is late since it has 17 parallels spread through various ancient schools. And it’s content stands firm against basic teachings.
What parallels? Chinese Agama transmitted 100s of years after the Buddha? Since MN 135 is the very type of doctrine that justifies political and social status quo, it was obviously very popular with the "authorities". Regardless, it is indisputable that MN 135 is contrary to the Dhamma Refuge. Do you know what the Dhamma Refuge is? Can you quote it? Thanks
StormBorn wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:53 pm
Now, if you say MN 111 is late, that’s totally fine since “0” parallels and the content fails horribly against multiple points of Dhamma.
Its ironic that you use "parallels" to argue against Sujato, who seems to be one of the recent inventors of the "parallels school". Why don't you start another thread where we can discuss whether or not "parallels" are a dodgy form of studying dhamma. Also, start a thread where we can discuss MN 111
and whether or not it "fail terribly"?
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm
Hes an atheistic Buddhist or somethinf I believe.
He is one with far greater sila that you; who has been celibate since 23yo; and had to censure you on your doctrine of sexual liberalism. In my experience, those who generally push reincarnation the strongest are often also those with the weaker sila because like Christians they take refuge in faith rather than deeds.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm
He also calls devas and hungry ghosts intricate metaphors for human states rather than literal realms.
Unsubstantiated ideas; both of them. Each realm is inseparable from a mental state. If people were reborn in physical hell they wouldn't have a mentality of happiness. :roll: It appears your personal ideas are contrary to the Pali suttas and it is not DooDoot that is a heretic. Allow me to quote:
“Bhikkhus, it is a gain for you, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the hell named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the heaven named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.135/en/bodhi
"When the mind was thus concentrated, purified, bright, unblemished, rid of defilement, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, I directed it to the knowledge of the passing away & reappearance of beings. I saw — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma: 'These beings — who were endowed with bad conduct of body, speech & mind, who reviled noble ones, held wrong views and undertook actions under the influence of wrong views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the plane of deprivation, the bad destination, the lower realms, in hell. But these beings — who were endowed with good conduct of body, speech, & mind, who did not revile noble ones, who held right views and undertook actions under the influence of right views — with the break-up of the body, after death, have re-appeared in the good destinations, in the heavenly world.' Thus — by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human — I saw beings passing away & re-appearing, and I discerned how they are inferior & superior, beautiful & ugly, fortunate & unfortunate in accordance with their kamma.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
SN 56.47 literally states the "human state" is one of moral righteousness & enligthenment.
“Sooner, I say, would that blind turtle, coming to the surface once every hundred years, insert its neck into that yoke with a single hole than the fool who has gone once to the nether world would regain the human state. For what reason? Because here, bhikkhus, there is no conduct guided by the Dhamma, no righteous conduct, no wholesome activity, no meritorious activity. Here there prevails mutual devouring, the devouring of the weak. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, they have not seen the Four Noble Truths. What four? The noble truth of suffering … the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering.

https://suttacentral.net/sn56.47/en/bodhi
No point clinging to views about what is "literal" when it is actually not "literal". What is literal is "hell" is a state of "unhappiness" and "human" is a state of moral righteousness & wisdom.
TRobinson465 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:24 pm
DooDoot wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:20 am
Respectfully, my view is ideas about a "self" doing past actions that account for a pimple on the face or anus or a TV falling on the head won't help abandoning "self" that is required to exist samsara.
Warned by the deva messengers,
those youths who are heedless
grieve for a long, long time —
people entering a lower state.
But those here who are good,
people of integrity,
when warned by the deva messengers
aren't heedless
of the noble Dhamma — ever.
Seeing danger in clinging,
in the coming-into-play
of birth & death,
they are released from lack of clinging,
in the ending
of birth & death.
They, happy, arriving at safety,
fully unbound in the here-&-now,
having gone beyond
all animosity & danger
have escaped
all suffering & stress.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
To be honest I think this is sorta an extreme way of applying not self. The buddha said one of the wrong views is not believing that good and bad actions bear fruit. I also think "clinging" applies to clinging to views to the point of unshakable attachment. But to each their own.
To be honest I think "atheism" was clearly demonstrated above. You posted on this very thread how you want to be "very careful" but when I posted the highest carefulness in Buddhism, you appeared to negligently reject it.

As for the Buddha, he said one of the wrong views is not believing that good and bad actions bear fruit but also said this does not end suffering. Regardless, it is not DooDoot that believes in sexual liberalism, which is a bad action leading to rebirth in the animal, ghost and hell realms.

DooDoot believes more strongly than Baby Brahma Boy in good and bad actions bear fruit. :smile: The most serious bad kamma is negligently rejecting the teaching of not-self and non-clinging; as said in MN 130. Funny thread. Baby Brahma Boy calling followers of Noble Dhamma "atheists"; as though Buddhism is about believing in theistic "God" or "Brahma". :roll:
Polar Bear wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:43 pm
I think the Buddha would argue against the view that our decisions now are determined by what was done in the past. And he’d argue against such a view not by providing some metaphysical argument, but by showing that such a view is unhelpful to hold for someone who wants to be virtuous, self controlled, and to end suffering. I think the Buddha thought that to put in the work to become liberated, one needs to see oneself as having a high degree of autonomy, or free will, and to assume a very high degree of personal responsibility.
I think SN 35.145 best epitomizes the above; where Buddha emphasises the cessation of "new kamma".
"Monks, I will teach you new & old kamma, the cessation of kamma, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma. Listen and pay close attention. I will speak.

"Now what, monks, is old kamma? The eye is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. The ear... The nose... The tongue... The body... The intellect is to be seen as old kamma, fabricated & willed, capable of being felt. This is called old kamma.

"And what is new kamma? Whatever kamma one does now with the body, with speech, or with the intellect: This is called new kamma.

"And what is the cessation of kamma? Whoever touches the release that comes from the cessation of bodily kamma, verbal kamma, & mental kamma: This is called the cessation of kamma.

"And what is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is called the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma.

"So, monks, I have taught you new & old kamma, the cessation of kamma, and the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma. Whatever a teacher should do — seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them — that have I done for you. Over there are the roots of trees; over there, empty dwellings. Practice jhana, monks. Don't be heedless. Don't later fall into regret. This is our message to you."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
:anjali:
Last edited by DooDoot on Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:16 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Bundokji
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Bundokji » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:04 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:33 am
Certainly. Starting, it seems, with the third sermon: a talk on fire to fire worshipers.
Thank you :anjali:

Then i would conclude that the Buddhists scholars approach is the correct one. If the Buddha already took context into consideration when he taught people, then the historical era he lived in becomes irrelevant.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by cjmacie » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:18 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:26 pm
...Once the personal is transcended and someone becomes an arahant, kamma becomes inoperative....
The mind (in it's intentional action) of an arahant does not generate further khamma, but the body, living circumstances, etc. of an arahant is still subject to the workings (results) of previous performed khamma. At least according to Theravada interpretation.

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Bundokji
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by Bundokji » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:42 am

cjmacie wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:18 am
retrofuturist wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:26 pm
...Once the personal is transcended and someone becomes an arahant, kamma becomes inoperative....
The mind (in it's intentional action) of an arahant does not generate further khamma, but the body, living circumstances, etc. of an arahant is still subject to the workings (results) of previous performed khamma. At least according to Theravada interpretation.
I was thinking about the same issue. The results of previous performed Kamma are ineffective (in terms of producing suffering) for someone who is free from clinging, so for all the practical reasons, it not inaccurate to describe it as inoperative in my opinion.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by James Tan » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:38 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 am
James Tan wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:26 am
I see , that seems nothing to do with anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.
I would be inclined to put it the other way round and say that Samyaksambodhi has nothing to do with Enlightenment. :smile:

What I mean by this is, firstly, that Enlightenment was being used as a term for a certain period in European intellectual history long before anyone used it to translate Bodhi, and secondly, that it's not really a very good translation. Awakening would be more accurate.
As a buddhist our tendency would be to relate the word to dhamma , naturally . Anyway , Awakening seems quite different from Chinese 正等正覺 for Samyaksambodhi 。


:anjali:
:reading:

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by James Tan » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:05 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:04 am

“Bhikkhus, it is a gain for you, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the hell named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is undesirable, never desirable; unlovely, never lovely; disagreeable, never agreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life. I have seen, bhikkhus, the heaven named ‘Contact’s Sixfold Base.’ There whatever form one sees with the eye is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable. Whatever sound one hears with the ear … Whatever odour one smells with the nose … Whatever taste one savours with the tongue … Whatever tactile object one feels with the body … Whatever mental phenomenon one cognizes with the mind is desirable, never undesirable; lovely, never unlovely; agreeable, never disagreeable.

“It is a gain for you, bhikkhus, it is well gained by you, that you have obtained the opportunity for living the holy life.”

https://suttacentral.net/sn35.135/en/bodhi

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html[/i]



saṃyuktāgama 210.

[Discourse on Extensive Joy and Extensive Suffering]

At that time the Blessed One said to the monks: “There is extensive joy and extensive suffering. Why is that? There are six spheres of contact in hell. Living beings born in that hell encounter with the eye forms that are disagreeable and do not encounter agreeable forms, they encounter forms one would not like to think of and do not encounter forms one would like to think of, they encounter bad forms and do not encounter good forms. Because of this condition, their entire experience is one of worry and pain [for a long time].
:reading:

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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:04 am
TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm
Hes an atheistic Buddhist or somethinf I believe.
He is one with far greater sila that you; who has been celibate since 23yo; and had to censure you on your doctrine of sexual liberalism. In my experience, those who generally push reincarnation the strongest are often also those with the weaker sila because like Christians they take refuge in faith rather than deeds.
Total strawman revolving around ur ego. Taking ur precepts and saying ur are better than every1 else because u think you keep them better is not in the slightest bit relevant. And i have been celibate for 25 years. Not that that or anything you said is relevant to what we're discussing now. Regarding that other thread, I just dont see evidence that sex b4 marriage always breaks the third precept. nothing more nothing less.

TRobinson465 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm
He also calls devas and hungry ghosts intricate metaphors for human states rather than literal realms.
Unsubstantiated ideas; both of them. Each realm is inseparable from a mental state. If people were reborn in physical hell they wouldn't have a mentality of happiness. :roll: It appears your personal ideas are contrary to the Pali suttas and it is not DooDoot that is a heretic.
[/quote]

I am not saying you are a heretic. I have no problem with your beliefs. U think everything is an insult cuz u think too highly of yourself. very few ppl care what u believe and I am not one of them. Are u saying my assumption of ur view of devas and hungry ghosts in inaccurate? I was just pointing this out. If u think my portrayal is wrong. Correct me and give us ur opinion of devas and hungry ghosts.
Last edited by TRobinson465 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

TRobinson465
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by TRobinson465 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:17 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:04 am

To be honest I think this is sorta an extreme way of applying not self. The buddha said one of the wrong views is not believing that good and bad actions bear fruit. I also think "clinging" applies to clinging to views to the point of unshakable attachment. But to each their own.
To be honest I think "atheism" was clearly demonstrated above. You posted on this very thread how you want to be "very careful" but when I posted the highest carefulness in Buddhism, you appeared to negligently reject it.

As for the Buddha, he said one of the wrong views is not believing that good and bad actions bear fruit but also said this does not end suffering. Regardless, it is not DooDoot that believes in sexual liberalism, which is a bad action leading to rebirth in the animal, ghost and hell realms.

DooDoot believes more strongly than Baby Brahma Boy in good and bad actions bear fruit. :smile: The most serious bad kamma is negligently rejecting the teaching of not-self and non-clinging; as said in MN 130. Funny thread. Baby Brahma Boy calling followers of Noble Dhamma "atheists"; as though Buddhism is about believing in theistic "God" or "Brahma". :roll:

This is more irrelevant ad hominem attacks. Isnt there a rule against bringing in arguments on other threads? I clearly stated I'm careful about criticizing monks and I gave details as to why. Not whatever u mean by this. Ur extrapolating my point nonsensically. And I am careful I even agreed with u on the marriage thing cuz I didn't want to create bad kamma for me by misleading ppl into thinking sexual liberalism is okay. Even tho I'm not convinced that sex outside marriage directly breaks the third precept. As I explained thoroughly b4.

Ur extrapolating many of my statements into insults. I have not meant to insult u or ur views anywhere on this thread. Ur reading too deeply into the lines. Unlike a significant portion of ppl on DW. I tolerate a wide range of interpretations of buddhism and have no problem with ppl who interpret things different than I do.

If u think I'm insulting u. I am not. I am simply providing my thoughts. I pointed out u were an atheistic Buddhist cuz somebody thought u were trolling about not believing past lives. That is all. Stop reading between the lines. Ur responses are angry and are like I'm out to get u or something. I disagree with many of ur views. But I do not care what u believe. U are not important enuff to me to care. I am just trying to convey my thoughts in peace. Not everything is an insult revolving around u.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"At Varanasi, in the Deer Park at Isipatana, the Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta

"Go forth, monks, for the good of the many, for the happiness of the many, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, the good and the happiness of gods and men. Let no two of you go in the same direction." - First Khandhaka, Chapter 11, Vinaya.

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DooDoot
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by DooDoot » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:51 pm

TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
I just dont see evidence that sex b4 marriage always breaks the third precept....
See. You are at it again. Engaged in careless speech. :|
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
U think everything is an insult cuz u think too highly of yourself.
Oh dear. You wished to be "very careful" with kamma but rejected MN 130 and continue to post unsubstantiated allegations. When you are corrected by another; you continue to defend your rebelliousness. Yet you wish to declare you are an expert on kamma. Your posts follow the same manner of this topic, where Sujato is accused of all manner of unsubstantiated allegations. The Buddha did not say in the suttas that ordinary misfortunes are due to past life kamma. When a mother or father lost a child, the Buddha did not tell them it was due to their past life kamma. :|

form
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Re: Bhante Sujatos and karmic snobbery.

Post by form » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:14 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:51 pm
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
I just dont see evidence that sex b4 marriage always breaks the third precept....
See. You are at it again. Engaged in careless speech. :|
TRobinson465 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:00 pm
U think everything is an insult cuz u think too highly of yourself.
Oh dear. You wished to be "very careful" with kamma but rejected MN 130 and continue to post unsubstantiated allegations. When you are corrected by another; you continue to defend your rebelliousness. Yet you wish to declare you are an expert on kamma. Your posts follow the same manner of this topic, where Sujato is accused of all manner of unsubstantiated allegations. The Buddha did not say in the suttas that ordinary misfortunes are due to past life kamma. When a mother or father lost a child, the Buddha did not tell them it was due to their past life kamma. :|
Then what cause them to lose the child?

I think the Buddha only said kammic operation is a complex one.

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