Why it is called self becomed ?

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sentinel
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Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by sentinel »

Hi everyone ,

What is the reason for calling the Buddha self becomed ?!
I understand that Buddha and arahant has no more becoming , but, it seems using the word self becomed (which I think meant for Buddha) not compatible with Him already achieved the ending of becoming ?!

Thanks .
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chownah
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by chownah »

I've never heard of self becomed.....can you bring a link to the place where you read it?
chownah
sentinel
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by sentinel »

chownah wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:31 am I've never heard of self becomed.....can you bring a link to the place where you read it?
chownah
https://suttacentral.net/thi-ap16/en/walters

On Candabhāgā River’s bank,
I was a kinnarī back then.
I saw the Stainless One, Buddha,
the Self-Become, Unconquered One.

Happy, with pleasure in my heart,
awe-struck, with hands pressed together,
taking a sal-flower garland,
I worshipped the Self-Become One.

Due to that karma done very well,
with intention and firm resolve,
discarding my human body,
I went to Tāvatiṃsa then.
You always gain by giving
chownah
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by chownah »

I'm not sure but I think that this is not from the tipitaka....it seems to be some legend....so its importance is perhaps somewhat limited.....I imagine though that they are referring to the fact that the buddha discovered the dhamma by himself while the rest of us have learned it from someone.....namely the buddha.
chownah
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DooDoot
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by DooDoot »

The Pali is sayambhuṃ.

sayambhū
masculine
the Creator.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by Dhammanando »

Rather than the over-literal “self-become”, sayambhū would be better translated either more expansively as “one who has become [what he is] by himself”, or else more freely as “self-made man”. The monicker means more or less the same as anācariyaka, “one without a teacher” (with which it is often juxtaposed). Both appellations are applied to sammāsambuddhas and paccekabuddhas to distinguish them from sāvaka arahants (whose enlightenment is owing to a teacher’s guidance).


Sayambhun ti sayameva aññāpadesaṃ vinā pāramiyo pūretvā adhigatabuddhabhāvanti attho.

“Sayambhū”: by himself alone, independent of another’s instruction, having fulfilled the perfections, he has arrived at a Buddha’s state” is the meaning.
(Buddhavaṃsa Atthakathā)


Paratoghosena vinā sayam’eva bhūtā paṭividdhākuppāti.

“Independent of the voice of another, by himself alone he has become one who has broken through to the Immovable state.”
(Visuddhimagga Mahāṭīkā)
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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DooDoot
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by DooDoot »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:54 am“Sayambhū”: by himself alone, independent of another’s instruction, having fulfilled the perfections, he has arrived at a Buddha’s state” is the meaning. (Buddhavaṃsa Atthakathā)
It appears "sayambhū" is exclusively found in the Apadāna and Milindapañha, which would contribute to a view about the lateness of the text.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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Dhammanando
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by Dhammanando »

DooDoot wrote: Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:01 am It appears "sayambhū" is exclusively found in the Apadāna and Milindapañha, which would contribute to a view about the lateness of the text.
Also the Buddhavaṃsa, Niddesa, Cariyāpiṭaka, Paṭisambhidāmagga and Kathāvatthu.

And the Vinaya's Cūḷavagga:
Saddhammaṭṭhitiko buddho, sayambhū aggapuggalo,
Āṇāpesi tajjanīyakammaṃ sāvatthiyaṃ jino.


Horner:
"The Awakened One, standing on what is verily dhamma,
self-developing, foremost of men, conqueror,
enjoined a (formal) act of censure at Sāvatthī."

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-kd11
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
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