Why it is called self becomed ?

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James Tan
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Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by James Tan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:25 am

Hi everyone ,

What is the reason for calling the Buddha self becomed ?!
I understand that Buddha and arahant has no more becoming , but, it seems using the word self becomed (which I think meant for Buddha) not compatible with Him already achieved the ending of becoming ?!

Thanks .
:reading:

chownah
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by chownah » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:31 am

I've never heard of self becomed.....can you bring a link to the place where you read it?
chownah

James Tan
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by James Tan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:29 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:31 am
I've never heard of self becomed.....can you bring a link to the place where you read it?
chownah
https://suttacentral.net/thi-ap16/en/walters

On Candabhāgā River’s bank,
I was a kinnarī back then.
I saw the Stainless One, Buddha,
the Self-Become, Unconquered One.

Happy, with pleasure in my heart,
awe-struck, with hands pressed together,
taking a sal-flower garland,
I worshipped the Self-Become One.

Due to that karma done very well,
with intention and firm resolve,
discarding my human body,
I went to Tāvatiṃsa then.
:reading:

chownah
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by chownah » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 am

I'm not sure but I think that this is not from the tipitaka....it seems to be some legend....so its importance is perhaps somewhat limited.....I imagine though that they are referring to the fact that the buddha discovered the dhamma by himself while the rest of us have learned it from someone.....namely the buddha.
chownah

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DooDoot
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:52 am

The Pali is sayambhuṃ.

sayambhū
masculine
the Creator.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:54 am

Rather than the over-literal “self-become”, sayambhū would be better translated either more expansively as “one who has become [what he is] by himself”, or else more freely as “self-made man”. The monicker means more or less the same as anācariyaka, “one without a teacher” (with which it is often juxtaposed). Both appellations are applied to sammāsambuddhas and paccekabuddhas to distinguish them from sāvaka arahants (whose enlightenment is owing to a teacher’s guidance).


Sayambhun ti sayameva aññāpadesaṃ vinā pāramiyo pūretvā adhigatabuddhabhāvanti attho.

“Sayambhū”: by himself alone, independent of another’s instruction, having fulfilled the perfections, he has arrived at a Buddha’s state” is the meaning.
(Buddhavaṃsa Atthakathā)


Paratoghosena vinā sayam’eva bhūtā paṭividdhākuppāti.

“Independent of the voice of another, by himself alone he has become one who has broken through to the Immovable state.”
(Visuddhimagga Mahāṭīkā)
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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DooDoot
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by DooDoot » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:01 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:54 am
“Sayambhū”: by himself alone, independent of another’s instruction, having fulfilled the perfections, he has arrived at a Buddha’s state” is the meaning. (Buddhavaṃsa Atthakathā)
It appears "sayambhū" is exclusively found in the Apadāna and Milindapañha, which would contribute to a view about the lateness of the text.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Dhammanando
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Re: Why it is called self becomed ?

Post by Dhammanando » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:31 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:01 am
It appears "sayambhū" is exclusively found in the Apadāna and Milindapañha, which would contribute to a view about the lateness of the text.
Also the Buddhavaṃsa, Niddesa, Cariyāpiṭaka, Paṭisambhidāmagga and Kathāvatthu.

And the Vinaya's Cūḷavagga:
Saddhammaṭṭhitiko buddho, sayambhū aggapuggalo,
Āṇāpesi tajjanīyakammaṃ sāvatthiyaṃ jino.


Horner:
"The Awakened One, standing on what is verily dhamma,
self-developing, foremost of men, conqueror,
enjoined a (formal) act of censure at Sāvatthī."

https://legacy.suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-kd11
“Keep to your own pastures, bhikkhus, walk in the haunts where your fathers roamed.
If ye thus walk in them, Māra will find no lodgement, Māra will find no foothold.”
— Cakkavattisīhanāda Sutta

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