Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:39 am

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:34 am
thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:31 am
You Westerners are generally in a hurry; therefore, you will have greater extremes of happiness, suffering, and defilement. If you practice correctly, the fact that you have to deal with many problems can be a source of deep wisdom later on.
Ajahn_Chah_A_Still_Forest_Pool
The above is merely a generalisation. If it is taken literally, it makes Ajahn Chah look like a fool.
Can we believe words of a person who is in a hurry ?
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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DooDoot
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:41 am

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:39 am
Can we believe words of a person who is in a hurry ?
Are you aware Ajahn Chah taught here-&-now Dependent Origination? :popcorn: For most Buddhists, this is a "modern view".
Now, how do we know that it's a bhava? It's a bhava (sphere of existence) because of our clinging to the idea that those trees are our own, that that orchard is our own. If someone were to take an ax and cut one of the trees down, the owner over there in the house ''dies'' along with the tree. He gets furious, and has to go and set things right, to fight and maybe even kill over it. That quarreling is the ''birth.'' The ''sphere of birth'' is the orchard of trees that we cling to as our own. We are ''born'' right at the point where we consider them to be our own, born from that bhava. Even if we had a thousand apple trees, if someone were to cut down just one it'd be like cutting the owner down.

http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Flood_Sensuality1.php
:candle:
thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:39 am
Can we believe words of a person who is in a hurry ?
Ajahn Chah taught many good Western monks. Your views are illogical, as I pointed out. Your views are unrelated to Ajahn Chah.
Last edited by DooDoot on Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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StormBorn
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by StormBorn » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:44 am

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:39 am
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:34 am
thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:31 am
The above is merely a generalisation. If it is taken literally, it makes Ajahn Chah look like a fool.
Can we believe words of a person who is in a hurry ?
Indeed. and the Buddha always taught about calm, restrained, mindful qualities as ways for wisdom rather than the opposite. And a restless mind is a hindrance too. Wonder is it actually Ajahn Chah said this or those smart ass students of his writing gibberish! :rofl:
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

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DooDoot
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by DooDoot » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:45 am

StormBorn wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:44 am
Indeed. and the Buddha always taught about calm, restrained, mindful qualities as ways for wisdom rather than the opposite. And a restless mind is a hindrance too. Wonder is it actually Ajahn Chah said this or those smart ass students of his writing gibberish! :rofl:
Every Westerner is obviously not in a hurry. Ajahn Chah was obviously generalising yet Thang believes it applies to 100% of cases. When I lived in Thailand, I knew Western monks who were experts at sloth-&-torpor. :D

thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:29 am

Dear friends, any Buddhist should wise enough to understand that these east-west things are generalizations mainly considering the majority.
If someone fails to understand even such a thing, means that he is in a hurry.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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Sam Vara
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:35 am

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:29 am
Dear friends, any Buddhist should wise enough to understand that these east-west things are generalizations mainly considering the majority.
If someone fails to understand even such a thing, means that he is in a hurry.
Likewise, any Buddhist should be wise enough to understand that if they go to an on-line forum and trade in unflattering cultural/racial generalisations, then they are likely to meet an unsympathetic response.

thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:44 am

Should we need flattering as if members are like children ?
This again seems proving ajahn chah's statement.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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rightviewftw
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:45 am

I heard that in southern thailand one can cath a type of buddhism that makes one eat prana

There are some diamond way type of buddhist groups here in norhern europe, i stay tf away for i definitely dlnt want to catch any of that. I think their leader is a westerner who caught it in tibet and turned into a lama.

thank you for this thread, i am having a lot of fun.
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

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Sam Vara
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:37 pm

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:44 am
Should we need flattering as if members are like children ?
This again seems proving ajahn chah's statement.
No, there is a clear difference between flattering people (which is unnecessary, and which I believe the Buddha spoke against) and refraining from making unflattering comparisons.

If it makes it easier to understand, I can rephrase it for you: Any Buddhist should be wise enough to understand that if they go to an on-line forum and trade in disparaging cultural/racial generalisations, then they are likely to meet an unsympathetic response.

Your post seems designed to stir up controversy, and whatever the intention is unlikely to convince most Westerners here of your case. If you want to discuss the differences between different strands of Buddhism, wouldn't it be more skillful to focus on the positives of different traditions?

thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:44 pm

I have realized that arguing with a moderator is dangerous. Generally many of them try to moderate even the views according to their wish.
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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rightviewftw
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:53 pm

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:44 pm
I have realized that arguing with a moderator is dangerous. Generally many of them try to moderate even the views according to their wish.
the only danger is wasting your time imo
He goes to Niraya, the one who asserts what didn't take place, as does the one who, having done, says, 'I didn't.' Both — low-acting people — there become equal: after death, in the world beyond.
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
How to Meditate: Mindfulness of Breathing
Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
How to Meditate: Basic Satipatthana
Parallel Dhammapada Reading

James Tan
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by James Tan » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:46 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:38 am
James Tan wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:36 am
Many Westerners are very learned , very rational and very committed . But , question is , will their kindness and compassion as equal as their intelligence ?!
Some of us follow the compassion of the Buddha.
"Therefore, Ananda, engage with me in friendliness, and not in opposition. That will be for your long-term well-being & happiness.

"I won't hover over you like a potter over damp, unbaked clay goods. Scolding again & again, I will speak. Urging you on again & again, I will speak. Whatever is of essential worth will remain."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
I guess we have to see then if the compassion is really manifested and can be seen .
:reading:

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Idappaccayata
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Idappaccayata » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:59 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:45 am
I heard that in southern thailand one can cath a type of buddhism that makes one eat prana

There are some diamond way type of buddhist groups here in norhern europe, i stay tf away for i definitely dlnt want to catch any of that. I think their leader is a westerner who caught it in tibet and turned into a lama.

thank you for this thread, i am having a lot of fun.
:jumping: :rofl: :goodpost: best answer yet
The furniture may be exquisite,
And the bars of solid gold,
But once the bird realizes that the cage is a cage,
It finds within that cage
No joy

- Ajahn Jayasaro

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StormBorn
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by StormBorn » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:24 pm

James Tan wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:36 am
Many Westerners are very learned , very rational and very committed . But , question is , will their kindness and compassion as equal as their intelligence ?!
Emotional intelligence can be very poor among many Westerners especially regarding Path related positive qualities. They often try to reach nirvana, and later even claim to have advanced on the Path, without due regard to the behavioural improvement. That may be why sometimes psychologists even claim that the meditation seems to worsen the personality of a person. But, difficult to say Asians are any better either. As some of my Asian friends complaining that the 90% of the news is about murder, theft, rape, drugs, fraud, corruption, etc., and the religious circle appear to be more greedy and needy than even lay people :D

In the end it's an individual matter regardless of the locality as the Buddha said all the four noble truths are found in this fathom long body! :smile:
Last edited by StormBorn on Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

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Sam Vara
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Sam Vara » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:26 pm

thang wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:44 pm
I have realized that arguing with a moderator is dangerous. Generally many of them try to moderate even the views according to their wish.
I don't wish to moderate your views, Thang. You will notice that I merely pointed out that you could expect a hostile response if you express some of the more unpleasant stereotypes that you hold; which is precisely what has happened. And that's unrelated to my role as moderator, which is not to evaluate your views, but to ensure that their expression does not infringe the ToS. There's nothing in the ToS about unpleasant stereotypes.

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