Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
santa100
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by santa100 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:21 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:32 pm
binocular wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:09 pm
Jesus...
Guys! We have a mole! :spy:
:D

James Tan
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:43 am

StormBorn wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:13 pm

If one is kind and compassionate, it's not easy to be stingy.

Can you explain what is compassion ?
:reading:

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StormBorn
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by StormBorn » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:43 am
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:13 pm

If one is kind and compassionate, it's not easy to be stingy.

Can you explain what is compassion ?
The friendly, generous, and considerate nature with a willingness of helping others and removing their bane and sorrows. However, in Buddhism wisdom factor also goes hand in hand with compassion.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

James Tan
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:06 am

StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 am
James Tan wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:43 am
StormBorn wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:13 pm

If one is kind and compassionate, it's not easy to be stingy.

Can you explain what is compassion ?
The friendly, generous, and considerate nature with a willingness of helping others and removing their bane and sorrows.
Seems there is a different understanding .
As I understand it , compassion is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another and therefore try to help them to be free from that situation .
:reading:

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StormBorn
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by StormBorn » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am

Here's a joke about how the compassion manifested among Theravada vs. Mahayana vs. Western Buddhist practitioners.

One day a poor and hungry man fainted on the road.

A Theravada practitioner on his way saw the poor fellow, stopped and thought for a while. Then walked to the nearby Buddha statue, offered his lunch packet, chanted, and transferred the generated merit to the poor fellow wishing that the merit to provide the poor fellow food. Then he continued his journey.

Then came a Western convert mindfully, he paused and mindfully made mental notes while looking at the poor fellow. Then, mindfully contemplated the nature of the suffering. When he's satisfied that he gained sufficient insight into this experience, he mindfully continued his walk.

Finally, a Mahayana practitioner happened to be passing along the road, he immediately came to the aid of the fainted man, carried him to a shade and offered him his own food and water.
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

James Tan
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by James Tan » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:55 am

I don't understand the simile.
:reading:

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samseva
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by samseva » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:02 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am
Finally, a Mahayana practitioner happened to be passing along the road, he immediately came to the aid of the fainted man, carried him to a shade and offered him his own food and water.
...then later that day, fainted and fell himself, due to dehydration/lack of nutrition.

rightviewftw
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:52 pm

StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am
Here's a joke about how the compassion manifested among Theravada vs. Mahayana vs. Western Buddhist practitioners.

One day a poor and hungry man fainted on the road.

A Theravada practitioner on his way saw the poor fellow, stopped and thought for a while. Then walked to the nearby Buddha statue, offered his lunch packet, chanted, and transferred the generated merit to the poor fellow wishing that the merit to provide the poor fellow food. Then he continued his journey.

Then came a Western convert mindfully, he paused and mindfully made mental notes while looking at the poor fellow. Then, mindfully contemplated the nature of the suffering. When he's satisfied that he gained sufficient insight into this experience, he mindfully continued his walk.

Finally, a Mahayana practitioner happened to be passing along the road, he immediately came to the aid of the fainted man, carried him to a shade and offered him his own food and water.
quite offensive...
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:22 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:52 pm
quite offensive...
:roll:


StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am
Here's a joke about how the compassion manifested among Theravada vs. Mahayana vs. Western Buddhist practitioners.
I found the joke a "joke" until the last sentence when it ceased to be a joke and became propaganda. I thought it might be funny if somehow all of its contents were realistic & contained a wise message. The criticisms of Theravada and Western Buddhist appear to have some validity and offered a wise message but the punch line was a let down or anti-climax. :)

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StormBorn
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by StormBorn » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:30 am

James Tan wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:55 am
I don't understand the simile.
Perhaps, it depends on the degree of one’s exposure to different societies and their religious behaviors in comparison with the religious texts. :smile:
samseva wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:02 pm
StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am
Finally, a Mahayana practitioner happened to be passing along the road, he immediately came to the aid of the fainted man, carried him to a shade and offered him his own food and water.
...then later that day, fainted and fell himself, due to dehydration/lack of nutrition.
Ah, yes! That brings out the supposed “compassion bias” in Mahayana. Thank you. :thumbsup:
DooDoot wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:22 pm
StormBorn wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 am
Here's a joke about how the compassion manifested among Theravada vs. Mahayana vs. Western Buddhist practitioners.
I found the joke a "joke" until the last sentence when it ceased to be a joke and became propaganda. I thought it might be funny if somehow all of its contents were realistic & contained a wise message. The criticisms of Theravada and Western Buddhist appear to have some validity and offered a wise message but the punch line was a let down or anti-climax. :)
This simile originally said to me by an Australian Buddhist, which I thought “perfect!”.But, that’s all what's left of it in my memory. Plus, English is not even my second language (I can’t ask my staff to write in forums for me :lol: ). Hence, the outcome might be a crash landing compared to what I intended to express originally. Sorry about that. :smile:
“Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one—himself.”

thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:34 am

Last year when I was in Bali I was asked to give a talk about Respect. I started the talk by pointing out that an American teaching Asians about respect is like a turtle teaching birds about flying. But, we do the best we can, which is really all we can do.
With All Due Respect
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

James Tan
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by James Tan » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 am

In reality kindness and compassion to be put in practise in daily life is not that easy . For example myself and my wife tried to offer free Chinese medical prescription or even medicine for many people but they doubted perhaps there is agenda behind it .
:reading:

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Sam Vara
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am

thang wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:34 am
Last year when I was in Bali I was asked to give a talk about Respect. I started the talk by pointing out that an American teaching Asians about respect is like a turtle teaching birds about flying. But, we do the best we can, which is really all we can do.
With All Due Respect
Are you quoting this as part of the claim that Westerners do not or cannot understand Buddhism? It might be worth pointing out that Paññobhāsa/David Reynolds is perhaps talking about a specific type of respect, and that Americans can in other areas be extremely respectful. It's only to be expected that most people will be better than foreigners at expressing the types of respect that are common in their country.

There is also the point that - even if true - Western weaknesses in respect or other areas might be compensated for by strengths in other areas.

thang
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by thang » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:35 pm

Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Are you quoting this as part of the claim that Westerners do not or cannot understand Buddhism?
We can never say "some human beings do not or cannot understand Buddhism". This was about the general behavior of the majority of Buddhists in the West. (Majority of both Asians and Westerners are either non-Buddhist or not real-Buddhist)
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Americans can in other areas be extremely respectful.
What are those other areas ?
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Western weaknesses in respect or other areas might be compensated for by strengths in other areas.
What are those strengths ?
"Bhikkhus, whatever the Tathāgata speaks, utters, or expounds
in the interval between
the night when he awakens to the unsurpassed perfect enlightenment
and the night when he attains final nibbāna,
all that is just so and not otherwise"
;

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Sam Vara
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Re: Will Westerners ever catch Buddhism ?

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:52 pm

thang wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:35 pm
Sam Vara wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Are you quoting this as part of the claim that Westerners do not or cannot understand Buddhism?
We can never say "some human beings do not or cannot understand Buddhism". This was about the general behavior of the majority of Buddhists in the West. (Majority of both Asians and Westerners are either non-Buddhist or not real-Buddhist)
I'm not sure that I can sign up to these axioms, but I'll let them pass until such time as you attempt to build an argument on them.
Sam Vara wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Americans can in other areas be extremely respectful.
What are those other areas ?
I've known American respect to be beautifully expressed in terms of courtesy (especially in the South!); an insistence on treating all-comers as being autonomous individuals; and lack of presumption.
Sam Vara wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:18 am
Western weaknesses in respect or other areas might be compensated for by strengths in other areas.
What are those strengths ?
Intellectual acumen and scholarship; compassion; open-mindedness; rationality; and determination, to name but a few.

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