Nibbana as experience

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:57 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:49 am
here on personal interpretations of the Dhamma;
viewtopic.php?t=32484
Difficult to believe the fuss being made on this thread when heresies about Nibbana (not being a sense experience) such as above are held. ;)

rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:57 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:49 am
here on personal interpretations of the Dhamma;
viewtopic.php?t=32484
Difficult to believe the fuss being made on this thread when heresies about Nibbana (not being a sense experience) such as above are held. ;)
Nibbana as an experience of a being is explicitly listed as wrong view;
5. Doctrines of Nibbāna Here and Now (Diṭṭhadhammanibbānavāda): Views 58–62

93. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now and who, on five grounds, proclaim Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
....
but you think this Sutta is fake (no surprise here hihi) so :focus:
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:08 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Nibbana as an experience of a being is explicitly listed as wrong view
Sure. But I don't ever recall posting this wrong view. Glad to see we can work on improving Dhamma understanding together. :toast:

rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:11 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:08 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm
Nibbana as an experience of a being is explicitly listed as wrong view
Sure. But I don't ever recall posting this wrong view. Glad to see we can work on improving Dhamma understanding together. :toast:
DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:44 am
Nibbana was known by the mind of the Buddha. It is not a concept and can only be known via the mind sense base.

How else can Nibbana be experienced, if not via one of the six sense bases?

:popcorn:
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:13 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm
....
Looks like DW experience won't be improving for you, in returning. Is there a forum in your native language that might help? :roll:
5. Doctrines of Nibbāna Here and Now (Diṭṭhadhammanibbānavāda): Views 58–62

93. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now and who, on five grounds, proclaim Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
....

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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:17 pm

DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:13 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm
....
Looks like experience won't be improving for you, in returning. Is there a forum in your native language that might help? :roll:
I know what i am getting into when i post here so don't you worry about my experience.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:20 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:17 pm
I know what i am getting into when i post here so don't you worry about my experience.
The term "existent being" is very important when found in a sutta. It indicates self-view thus wrong view. The pure citta or a "Buddha" (that experiences Nibbana via the mind sense base) is not an "existent being". "A being" is defined in SN 23.2 and SN 5.10.
"'A being,' lord. 'A being,' it's said. To what extent is one said to be 'a being'?"

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for form, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for feeling... perception... fabrications...

"Any desire, passion, delight, or craving for consciousness, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being.'

"Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles: as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them.

rightviewftw
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Re: Why Dhammawheel is not growing?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:28 pm

Check this out i will rehash your supressed memories
5. Doctrines of Nibbāna Here and Now (Diṭṭhadhammanibbānavāda): Views 58–62

93. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who maintain a doctrine of Nibbāna here and now and who, on five grounds, proclaim Nibbāna here and now for an existent being. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
....
DooDoot wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:08 pm
Sure. But I don't ever recall posting this wrong view.
DooDoot wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:36 pm
Its experienced at the mind base because the Buddha experienced it in the here & now.
DooDoot wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:51 am
How will Nibbana after the termination of life be attained if Nibbana in the here & now is not attained. Also, since Nibbana in the here & now is an implicit Buddhist doctrine, to deny it sounds like heresy to me. For me, someone not interest in Nibbana here & now is not interested in Buddhism.
You could not have been more clear and even gave clarification which i earlier posted. You were refuted with Sammaditthi Sutta and you ended up saying that cessation means something else but never explained what this alternative meaning is. You have also previously stated that you hold that a being has the aggregates which is stated to be a self view. There is no point in rehashing this and there should be absolutely no doubt about who is having personal interpretations of the Dhamma here and what constitutes heresy.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Nibbana as experience

Post by Sam Vara » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:48 pm

This new thread is split off from an exchange in "Suggestions", in the hope that something useful might emerge from it. If it just turns into an opportunity to settle old scores, it will be locked. Please use the "Suggestions" section only for the purpose intended.

rightviewftw
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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Well to be fair with you there is a way to talk about Nibbana as in the Here & Now as in the state of an Arahant ie, as the Nibbana with Residue, the state of non delusion for a being. However it is clear that this is not what you meant and you are essentially denying the experience of cessation and claim that destruction of the taints is possible without seeing the fourfold round, the cessation of aggregates, so much is clear.
1] [At Saavatthii the Blessed One said:]

"Monks, I declare that the destruction of the cankers[2] comes for him who knows and sees, and not for him who does not know and does not see. By knowing what, by seeing what, does the destruction of the cankers come about? 'Such is material form, such is its arising, such is its passing away; such is feeling... such is perception... such are the mental formations... such is consciousness, such is its arising, such is its passing away': for him who knows this, for him who sees this, the destruction of the cankers comes about.

"Regarding this knowledge of destruction, I declare that there is a supporting condition without which it does not arise...[3] What is this supporting condition? Liberation... Liberation has a supporting condition...: Dispassion... Dispassion has a supporting condition...: Disenchantment... Disenchantment has a supporting condition...: Knowledge-and-vision-of-things-as-they-are... Knowledge-and-vision-of-things-as-they-are has a supporting condition...: Concentration... Concentration has a supporting condition...: Happiness... Happiness has a supporting condition...: Tranquillity... Tranquillity has a supporting condition...: Rapture...[4] Rapture has a supporting condition...: Joy... Joy has a supporting condition...: Faith...[5] Faith has a supporting condition...: Suffering...[6] Suffering has a supporting condition...: Birth...[7] Becoming... Grasping... Craving... Feeling... Contact... the Six Sense-Bases... Name-and-Form... Consciousness... the (kamma-) formations... Ignorance...
At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said, "Monks, there are these five clinging-aggregates. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling as a clinging-aggregate, perception as a clinging-aggregate, fabrications as a clinging-aggregate, consciousness as an a clinging-aggregate.

"Now, as long as I did not have direct knowledge of the fourfold round with regard to these five clinging-aggregates, I did not claim to have directly awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening in this cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, in this generation with its brahmans & contemplatives, its royalty & common people. But when I did have direct knowledge of the fourfold round with regard to these five clinging-aggregates, then I did claim to have directly awakened to the unexcelled right self-awakening in this cosmos with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, in this generation with its brahmans & contemplatives, its royalty & common people.

"The fourfold round in what way? I had direct knowledge of form... of the origination of form... of the cessation of form... of the path of practice leading to the cessation of form.

"I had direct knowledge of feeling...

"I had direct knowledge of perception...

"I had direct knowledge of fabrications...

"I had direct knowledge of consciousness... of the origination of consciousness... of the cessation of consciousness... of the path of practice leading to the cessation of consciousness.
The Sixfold Base

48. Saying, "Good, friend," the bhikkhus delighted and rejoiced in the Venerable Sariputta's words. Then they asked him a further question: "But, friend, might there be another way in which a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma?" — "There might be, friends.

49. "When, friends, a noble disciple understands the sixfold base, the origin of the sixfold base, the cessation of the sixfold base, and the way leading to the cessation of the sixfold base, he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

50. "And what is the sixfold base, what is the origin of the sixfold base, what is the cessation of the sixfold base, what is the way leading to the cessation of the sixfold base? There are these six bases: the eye-base, the ear-base, the nose-base, the tongue-base, the body-base, the mind-base. With the arising of mentality-materiality there is the arising of the sixfold base. With the cessation of mentality-materiality there is the cessation of the sixfold base. The way leading to the cessation of the sixfold base is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

51. "When a noble disciple has thus understood the sixfold base, the origin of the sixfold base, the cessation of the sixfold base, and the way leading to the cessation of the sixfold base... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma."
“Venerable sir, it is said, ‘the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion.’ Of what now, venerable sir, is this the designation?”

“This, bhikkhu, is a designation for the element of Nibbāna: the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion. The destruction of the taints is spoken of in that way.”

When this was said, that bhikkhu said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, it is said, ‘the Deathless, the Deathless.’ What now, venerable sir, is the Deathless? What is the path leading to the Deathless?”

“The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the Deathless. This Noble Eightfold Path is the path leading to the Deathless; that is, right view … right concentration.”
“Mendicants, I say it’s not possible to know or see or reach the end of the world by travelling. But I also say there’s no making an end of suffering without reaching the end of the world.”
...
Whatever in the world through which you perceive the world and conceive the world is called the world in the training of the noble one. And through what in the world do you perceive the world and conceive the world? Through the eye in the world you perceive the world and conceive the world. Through the ear … nose … tongue … body … mind in the world you perceive the world and conceive the world. Whatever in the world through which you perceive the world and conceive the world is called the world in the training of the noble one.
...
"But neither do I say, friend, that without having reached the end of the world there could be an ending of ill. It is in this very fathom-long physical frame with its perceptions and mind, that, I declare, lies the world, and the arising of the world, and the cessation of the world, and the path leading to the cessation of the world
Eightfold Noble Path is for the cessation of contact, the end of the world, for the attainment of the Deathless and destruction of delusion.
There is no destruction of delusion for one who has not realized this cessation of the world.


I doubt there will be anything new coming out of this thread because the view that i think OP holds is not something new or his alone. It is imo quite standard anihilationist view. A being is reborn as long as there is delusion and when a being becomes so wise that he has no more delusion the being is annihilated, annihilated in the rightful and standard meaning of the word as it is used in the world. This is very much like a direct realist's take on death, you die and there is nothing but here you become arahant first and then there is nothing.

Also i have probably explained this 5 times already
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by cappuccino » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:11 pm

Nirvana is a state of mind,
not mere cessation, hence not annihilation.

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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by SavakaNik » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:43 pm

The opinion has been expressed (in the P.T.S. Dictionary) that nibbāna is not transcendental. If by 'transcendental' is meant 'mystical', either in the sense of having to do with a (supposed) Divine Ground or simply of being by nature a mystery, then nibbāna (or 'extinction') is not transcendental: indeed, it is anti-transcendental; for mystification is the state, not of the arahat (who has realized nibbāna), but of the puthujjana (who has not). For the arahat, all sense of personality or selfhood has subsided, and with it has gone all possibility of numinous experience; and a fortiori the mystical intuition of a trans-personal Spirit or Absolute Self—of a Purpose or an Essence or a Oneness or what have you—can no longer arise. Cf. Preface (m). Nor, for one who sees, is the nature of nibbāna a mystery at all. When a fire becomes extinguished (nibbuta) we do not suppose that it enters a mysterious 'transcendental state': neither are we to suppose such a thing of the person that attains nibbāna.

But if 'transcendental' means 'outside the range of investigation of the disinterested scholar or scientist', then nibbāna is transcendental (but so are other things). And if 'transcendental' means 'outside the range of understanding of the puthujjana'—though the dictionary hardly intends this—, then again it is transcendental. Only this last meaning corresponds to lokuttara. (i) Existence or being (bhava) transcends reason (takka, which is the range of the scholar or scientist), and (ii) extinction (nibbāna) transcends existence (which is the range of the puthujjana):

(i) There is no reason why I am, why I exist. My existence cannot be demonstrated by reasoning since it is not necessary, and any attempt to do so simply begs the question. The Cartesian cogito ergo sum is not a logical proposition—logically speaking it is a mere tautology. My existence is beyond reason.

(ii) I can assert my existence or I can deny it, but in order to do either I must exist; for it is I myself who assert it or deny it. Any attempt I may make to abolish my existence tacitly confirms it; for it is my existence that I am seeking to abolish. Ye kho te bhonto samanabrāhmanā sato sattassa ucchedam vināsam vibhavam paññāpenti te sakkāyabhayā sakkāyaparijegucchā sakkāyam yeva anuparidhāvanti anuparivattanti. Seyyathāpi nāma sā gaddūlabaddho dalhe thambhe vā khīle vā upanibaddho tam eva thambham vā khīlam vā anuparidhāvati anuparivattati, evam ev'ime bhonto samanabrāhmanā sakkāyabhayā sakkāyaparijegucchā sakkāyam yeva anuparidhāvanti anuparivattanti. ('Those recluses and divines who make known the annihilation, perishing, and un-being, of the existing creature,—they, through fear of perssonality, through loathing of personality, are simply running and circling around personality. Just, indeed, as a dog, tied with a leash to a firm post or stake, runs and circles around that same post or stake, so these recluses and divines, through fear of personality, through loathing of personality, are simply running and circling around personality.') (Majjhima xi,2 <M.ii,232>) Cessation of 'my existence' (which is extinction— bhavanirodho nibbānam ('Extinction is cessation of being.') [Anguttara X,i,7 <A.v,9>]) is beyond my existence.

The idea of nibbāna as the ultimate goal of human endeavour will no doubt strike the common man, innocently enjoying the pleasures of his senses, as a singularly discouraging notion if he is told that it is no more than 'cessation of being'. Without actually going so far (overtly, at least) as to hope for Bradley's Absolute ('It would be experience entire, containing all elements in harmony. Thought would be present as a higher intuition; will would be there where the ideal had become reality; and beauty and pleasure and feeling would live on in this total fulfilment. Every flame of passion, chaste or carnal, would still burn in the Absolute unquenched and unabridged, a note absorbed in the harmony of its higher bliss.' [Op. cit. (A.&R.), Ch. XV]),—without perhaps going quite so far as this, even a thoughtful man may like to expect something a little more positive than 'mere extinction' as the summum bonum. We shrink before the idea that our existence, with its anguishes and its extasies, is wholly gratuitous, and we are repelled by the suggestion that we should be better off without it; and it is only natural that the puthujjana should look for a formula to save something from (as he imagines) the shipwreck.

In the Udāna (viii,3 <Ud.80>) nibbāna is spoken of by the Buddha in these terms: Atthi bhikkhave ajātam abhūtam akatam asankhatam, no ce tam bhikkhave abhavissa ajātam abhūtam akatam asankhatam na yidha jātassa bhūtassa katassa sankhatassa nissaranam paññāyetha. ('There is, monks, a non-born, non-become, non-made, non-determined; for if, monks, there were not that non-born, non-become, non-made, non-determined, an escape here from the born, become, made, determined, would not be manifest.') 'Such a positive assertion of the existence of the Unconditioned' it is sometimes urged 'must surely imply that nibbāna is not simply annihilation.' Nibbāna, certainly, is not 'simply annihilation'—or rather, it is not annihilation at all: extinction, cessation of being, is by no means the same thing as the (supposed) annihilation of an eternal 'self' or soul. (See Majjhima xi,2, above.) And the assertion of the existence of nibbāna is positive enough—but what, precisely, is asserted? In the Asankhata Samyutta (i,1 & ii,23 <S.iv,359&371>) we read Yo bhikkhave rāgakkhayo dosakkhayo mohakkhayo, idam vuccati bhikkhave asankhatam/nibbānam; ('The destruction, monks, of lust, of hate, of delusion—this, monks, is called (the) non-determined/extinction.') and we see that, if we do not go beyond the Suttas, we cannot derive more than the positive assertion of the existence here of the destruction of lust, hate, and delusion. And this is simply a statement that to get rid, in this very life, of lust, hate, and delusion, is possible (if it were not, there would be no escape from them, and therefore—Anguttara X,viii,6 <A.v,144>—no escape from birth, ageing, and death). And the arahat has, in fact, done so. But if, in our stewing minds, we still cannot help feeling that nibbāna really ought, somehow, to be an eternity of positive enjoyment, or at least of experience, we may ponder these two Sutta passages:

Tisso imā bhikkhu vedanā vuttā mayā, sukhā vedanā dukkhā vedanā adukkhamasukhā vedanā, imā tisso vedanā vuttā mayā. Vuttam kho pan' etam bhikkhu mayā, Yam kiñci vedayitam tam dukkhasmin ti. Tam kho pan'etam bhikkhu mayā sankhārānam yeva aniccatam sandhāya bhāsitam... ('There are, monk, these three feelings stated by me: pleasant feeling, unpleasant feeling, neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant feeling—these three feelings have been stated by me. But this, monk, has been stated by me: 'Whatever is felt counts as unpleasure (suffering)'. That, however, monk, was said by me concerning the impermanence of determinations...' (See Vedanā Samy. i,9, quoted at A NOTE ON PATICCASAMUPPĀDA §17.)) Vedanā Samy. ii,1 <S.iv,216>

Āyasmā Sāriputto etad avoca. Sukham idam āvuso nibbānam, sukham idam āvuso nibbānan ti. Evam vutte āyasmā Udāyi āyasmantam Sāriputtam etad avoca. Kim pan'ettha āvuso Sāriputta sukham, yad ettha n'atthi vedayitan ti. Etad eva khv ettha āvuso sukham, yad ettha n'atthi vedayitam. ('The venerable Sāriputta said this:—It is extinction, friends, that is pleasant! It is extinction, friends, that is pleasant! When this was said, the venerable Udāyi said to the venerable Sāriputta,—But what herein is pleasant, friend Sāriputta, since herein there is nothing felt?—Just this is pleasant, friend, that herein there is nothing felt.') Anguttara IX,iv,3 <A.iv,414>
Footnotes:


The dictionary merely says that nibbāna is not transcendental since it is purely and solely an ethical state to be reached in this birth. But this is altogether too simple a view. As pointed out in KAMMA, an understanding of the foundation of ethical practice is already beyond the range of the puthujjana, and ultimately, by means of ethical practice, the arahat completely and finally transcends it. Nibbāna is an ethical state inasmuch as it is reached by ethical practice, but inasmuch as that state is cessation of ethics nibbāna is transcendental. (It must be emphasized, lest anyone mistake this for a kind of antinomianism, that the arahat is in no way exempted from observance of the disciplinary rules of the Vinaya. How far he is capable of breaking them is another question. See Anguttara III,ix,5-7 <A.i,231-4> & IX,i,7&8 <iv,369-72>.)
Last edited by SavakaNik on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by cappuccino » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Udāyi said to the venerable Sāriputta,—But what herein is pleasant, friend Sāriputta, since herein there is nothing felt?—Just this is pleasant, friend, that herein there is nothing felt.
hence Nirvana is pleasant
Sāriputta said this:—It is extinction, friends, that is pleasant! It is extinction, friends, that is pleasant!

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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:57 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:11 pm
Nirvana is a state of mind,
not mere cessation, hence not annihilation.
"But as for what's called 'mind,' 'intellect,' or 'consciousness,' the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it. Why is that? For a long time this has been relished, appropriated, and grasped by the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person as, 'This is me, this is my self, this is what I am.' Thus the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person is unable to grow disenchanted with it, unable to grow dispassionate toward it, unable to gain release from it.
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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DooDoot
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Re: Nibbana as experience

Post by DooDoot » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:05 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:11 pm
Nirvana is a state of mind,
Probably best to say "Nirvana is a mental experience" (rather than a "state of mind", which would make Nibbana a "nama dhamma").
rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:28 pm
Check this out i will rehash your suppressed memories
As I posted, refutation of your posts not only by my good self but also by others will continue here because it appears your core ideas about Buddhism are very wrong. The Buddha said:
"Therefore, Ananda, engage with me in friendliness, and not in opposition. That will be for your long-term well-being & happiness.

"I won't hover over you like a potter over damp, unbaked clay goods. Scolding again & again, I will speak. Urging you on again & again, I will speak. Whatever is of essential worth will remain."

MN 122
1. Here-&-now Nibbana is a right view. 8-)

2. Here-&-now Nibbana of an existing being (sant satta) is wrong view. :(

This is so basic yet it seems you can't distinguish between the two.

Below is the definition of annihilationism. This is not about "impermanence" itself but about the idea that a "self" is impermanent.
How, bhikkhus, do some overreach? Now some are troubled, ashamed, and disgusted by this very same being and they rejoice in (the idea of) non-being, asserting: 'In as much as this self, good sirs, when the body perishes at death, is annihilated and destroyed and does not exist after death — this is peaceful, this is excellent, this is reality!' Thus, bhikkhus, do some overreach.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .irel.html
There are, monks, some contemplatives & brahmans who are annihilationists, who proclaim the annihilation, destruction, & non-becoming of an existing being [sant satta] on seven grounds. And with reference to what, coming from what, are these honorable contemplatives & brahmans annihilationists who proclaim the annihilation, destruction, & non-becoming of an existing being on seven grounds?

DN 1
Similarly, Nibbana with self-view of an "existing being" is wrong view. But Nibbana here-&-now of a Void Arahant is right view.

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